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bimmer
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Posted: Thu Feb 11th, 2010 03:11 pm |
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that's cool bones. 
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Bones n Hombre
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Posted: Thu Feb 11th, 2010 05:47 am |
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MOTman wrote: Hi Bones
I can assure you that a VE wouldn't suggest what you've said. The test route is not mandatory and NTs can and do test in the RBT before putting a vehicle on the ramp.
This is not a problem - stop worrying!
I know this , I was responding to a post that GOLF said he was recommended to do the brake test first . My VE (when I was testing in north London ) was a very switched on and cool guy , never once made incorrect or stupid statements. So in all my testing I never had a problem with a VE.
Bimmer .. more than happy to move on
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Wesley
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Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 11:55 pm |
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"For each Action, there is a Reaction".
From this, We must learn to ignore such postings that might cause us to react in a defensive manner towards our chosen profession, and let the posts run their own course.
please God allow the driveway to be clear from ice and snow tomorrow so that i dont slip and fracture something............pmsl.
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bimmer
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Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 11:52 pm |
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| time to move on i think.
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MOTman
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Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 10:22 pm |
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Hi Bones
I can assure you that a VE wouldn't suggest what you've said. The test route is not mandatory and NTs can and do test in the RBT before putting a vehicle on the ramp.
This is not a problem - stop worrying!
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Bones n Hombre
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Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 05:02 pm |
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bimmer wrote: hi bones
regardless of how any of us interpret the manual VOSA make the rules and there is no rule that states a test must be abadoned if a disc is failed for being excessively worn, but can be done at the testers discretion if they feel they cannot complete the test safely. anyway besides all this jayL seems happy with the outcome of his original post and that's what it's all about.
Guys , I am not trying to upset anyone.
NO vosa do not say abandon the test if your failing the discs for being worn.
However it states quiet clearly as I have already posted that you would HAVE to do this to not be "caught " out by a VE
VE: you failed some discs last week for being worn to excess.
NT: yes thats right.
VE: I think you made an incorrect assessment.
NT: why do you think that, have you seen the discs?
VE: no , I dont need too, you entered brake results, therefore you did a brake test.
that means that you were not following the criteria for making assessments on wear and deterioration laid out in the manual (I have posted link previously), the manual which as a tester, you agree to follow. The criteria states (in the link posted), that the discs should have "clearly reached the stage where replacement was necessary". I put it to you that the discs hadn't reached that stage, as you managed to do a brake test. ..........
etc etc.
I am willing to accept that JayL has had his answer and if anyone would like to start a new thread to discuss this or maybe a moderator can move this to a new thread, I am more than happy to carry on chatting about it. I do not profess to know everything and believe me I wish this wasn't the case but how I always approached these things is, look how someone might ask you the questions.
You only have to read my little story and put yourself as the NT and think about how to answer the VE without incriminating yourself. I am all about prevention thats why I think about these things...I also have way to much time on my hands now I don't test anymore.
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bimmer
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Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 07:11 am |
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hi bones
regardless of how any of us interpret the manual VOSA make the rules and there is no rule that states a test must be abadoned if a disc is failed for being excessively worn, but can be done at the testers discretion if they feel they cannot complete the test safely. anyway besides all this jayL seems happy with the outcome of his original post and that's what it's all about.
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Bones n Hombre
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Posted: Wed Feb 10th, 2010 05:22 am |
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golf wrote: firstly VOSA recommend doin a brake test before any other inspection or so my VE said when i was inspected. (i have never really believed this though!!)
so they were ok now you think they aint lol
nah, brake disc's these days have a wear limit marker on them so they will still work fine, yet be below minimum spec & excessively worn.
likewise a tyre that is below 1.6 is excessively worn, you can still drive it in and out of the bay can you not?? or a failed wishbone bush?? would you fail any or just refuse to test??
besides its in everyones interest to come up with a result pass, or fail!!
rather than spend doing this and that then ill have another look and fail it on that brake light etc. customers would be ready to shoot us!!
Perhaps your VE recommends this ( this really wouldn't surprise me at all) however there is no evidence of VOSA recommending this anywhere , at least I cannot find any evidence ( this is why I show links in my posts , proof ) . There is no way in hell I would ever do a brake test first after having a Brake pipe go on my brake rollers and spending an hour having to clean them out , and I doubt any other tester that had has the same thing happen would either.
A brake disc below the manufacturer min spec is NOT worn to excess as the link in my previous post proved ( in VOSA's own words ) to be excessively worn the item must have " Clearly reached the stage when replacement,repair or adjustment is necessary" , it doesn't say " when it reaches the manufacturers minimum thickness".
lets face it this is where the manafacturer wants you to spend money not when it fails an MOT.
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/internet/htdocs/m3i00000502.htm
The example you gave with the tyre is different as it actually does say 1.6mm as the reason for rejection so we actually have something to measure, this would be called an OBJECTIVE fail not a SUBJECTIVE fail like the discs (ie Subjective means ..in your opinion).
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/internet/htdocs/m3s04000106.htm
Coming up with a result I agree with that statement , however I have come up with a result my result is test abandoned on the grounds that the test may cause damage to my equipment.
I would still do all other aspects of the test and I would still list the fail on a VT30 for the brake light not working so the customer would still know all the other things that it would fail on however now I haven't risked my equipment for my customer , and if the discs were ok and no risk to my equipment ( if the brake test goes ok) then I have given proof to VOSA , I failed the discs incorrectly.
As I said in my previous post I am not currently a tester nor have i tested for a (very) long time but to me this is besides the point , if it is in writing in the manual or the guide or on a special notice then it is "law".
edited spelling mistakes
Last edited on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 05:24 am by Bones n Hombre
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golf
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 07:12 pm |
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firstly VOSA recommend doin a brake test before any other inspection or so my VE said when i was inspected. (i have never really believed this though!!)
so they were ok now you think they aint lol
nah, brake disc's these days have a wear limit marker on them so they will still work fine, yet be below minimum spec & excessively worn.
likewise a tyre that is below 1.6 is excessively worn, you can still drive it in and out of the bay can you not?? or a failed wishbone bush?? would you fail any or just refuse to test??
besides its in everyones interest to come up with a result pass, or fail!!
rather than spend doing this and that then ill have another look and fail it on that brake light etc. customers would be ready to shoot us!!
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Bones n Hombre
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 03:06 pm |
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bimmer wrote: hi bones
correct me if i am wrong, but are you saying that every time i want to fail a brake disc for worn to excess i would have to abandon the test. i can if i consider it would be dangerous to complete the test, but it is not compulsory.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/CONT066617.pdf
Ok firstly I am not a tester, but this is how I understand things.
If I am saying brake discs are excessively worn r.f.r 3.5 1.h.
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/internet/htdocs/m3s03000501.htm
Then by saying they are worn to excess , I am also saying that they "clearly need repair, replacement or adjustment " .( assesment of wear and deterioration 4.b).
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/internet/htdocs/m3i00000502.htm
I am also saying that they need repair/replacement "at time of test" (purpose and scope of test A3. 3 , not at any other time).
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/internet/htdocs/tgs0a000101.htm
Therefore if I fail a set of discs for being excessively worn and then brake test them , have I not proved that they DIDN'T "clearly reach the stage where replacement was necessary ", and if (god forbid ) Vosa got involved would they not, without even seeing the discs, already be able to prove that they were not "excessively worn" and just badly worn. As the fact that I carried out a brake test and they didn't collapse means just that. Imagine it passes the brake test then I have opened the door even wider. Personaly, if I thought the brake discs needed ( clearly reached the stage ), replacement now ( at time of test), then they could damage my rollers if they broke up.
Like I said previously I am not a tester and haven't tested for years ( and I do mean years) , so I may be wrong but this is certainly how I would interpret the manual/guide, and its how I did interpret it when I was testing.
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bimmer
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 09:44 am |
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| good luck.
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JayL
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 09:42 am |
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Hi Bimmer
Thanks for the info. It's given me the reassurance to request a refund from my garage, rather than accept that two month old discs and pads need replacing.
Thanks again.
This is a fab site.
JayL
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bimmer
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 09:32 am |
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hi jayL
if you have the green vt20 as well as the vt32 then your car has not failed the test.
the vt32 is to let you know to keep an eye on certain things that the the tester has noticed during the test. if you think you were misslead by mot station you should get in touch with them and try and sort it out.Last edited on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 09:43 am by bimmer
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JayL
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 09:32 am |
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What I dont understand then, is why I have been charged for new brake discs and pads and labour with my MOT - I was lead to believe on the phone that they needed replacing as part of my MOT!
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MOTman
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 09:27 am |
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JayL
From what I'm reading now, it does not appear that your car failed the MoT at all!
The VT32 is an advisory notice only. If you have not been issued with a VT30 (fail certificate) your car has passed.
Wear on the discs is possible in 2,000 miles and therefore there is no need to panic here. You could get the same comment for the next 5 years worth of MoTs......
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JayL
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 09:20 am |
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Hello Bones
Thanks for the message. My MOT has an Advisory notice VT32 attached to it with the following items on it:
1 - Nearside front brake disc(s) slightly worn (3.5.1h)
2 - Offside front brade disc(s) slightly worn (3.5.1h)
3 - Rear exhaust has part of the system slightly deteriorated (7.1.1a)
There's no VT30 in sight.
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bimmer
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 06:33 am |
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hi bones
correct me if i am wrong, but are you saying that every time i want to fail a brake disc for worn to excess i would have to abandon the test. i can if i consider it would be dangerous to complete the test, but it is not compulsory.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/CONT066617.pdfLast edited on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 06:46 am by bimmer
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Bones n Hombre
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Posted: Tue Feb 9th, 2010 05:12 am |
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Hi Jayl
Could you please list the exact codes on the failure sheet.
I am curious to know exactly what happened here. The way I see it if the tester wants to fail the discs for "worn to excess" , then he has no other option but to not do the Brake test (otherwise he is saying the discs allthough bad are not "worn to excess") . Therefore he must have abandoned the test (as he now hasn't completed the test ) .
As you can see I am a little confused , please list the fails as they are printed on the VT30 and look for the wording "test abandoned" somewhere on that sheet.
As Motman said you have a different issue with whoever fitted the pads and discs as if they were fitted less than two months ago it is not likely they have worn so low within that time.
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JayL
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Posted: Mon Feb 8th, 2010 11:57 am |
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Thanks again for your help on this.
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MOTman
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Posted: Mon Feb 8th, 2010 11:53 am |
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You need to speak to the manager, as it's just possible that the MoT tester may have made an error..........
It's also possible that the parts were inadevrtently not replaced at the time.....it has been known to happen!
I'm sure they will sort this out for you
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