| Author | Post |
|---|
Wesley
Trade Member
|
Posted: Sat Feb 27th, 2010 12:39 am |
|
Judwud wrote: Stealth wrote: Judwud wrote: The repairs made were new discs, pads, tighten handbrake cable to max, which I have since readjusted as the brakes were binding.
On a different note, has anyone ever used the parking brake in the new passats to stop before? it is very efficient  very weird, lol.
As Kev said previously - not good practice just to tighten the cable - you still need to sort out the underlying problem with the operating/adjusting mechanism.
Skilled mechanic ?
There was nothing wrong with the handbrake and no underlying problem, the only problem we had was a S**T of a tester, my husband just did what he had to to get the tester to pass it, there is history between the tester and my family that I don't really want to go into on here, we have slackened the handbrake off again and we have had another tester check the handbrake who has said it feels absolutely fine. It is my father who has the new passat, I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced the speed that the car slows down, sorry for throwing that in and confusing everything  , we have an older passat, we're not as wealthy as my dad 
My husband has been a mechanic for 24 years.
No "Stress" then??......... "Mother, Jumps In and "saves the day"??..........LOL.
|
Judwud
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |  |
|
Posted: Sat Feb 27th, 2010 12:15 am |
|
Stealth wrote: Judwud wrote: The repairs made were new discs, pads, tighten handbrake cable to max, which I have since readjusted as the brakes were binding.
On a different note, has anyone ever used the parking brake in the new passats to stop before? it is very efficient very weird, lol.
As Kev said previously - not good practice just to tighten the cable - you still need to sort out the underlying problem with the operating/adjusting mechanism.
Skilled mechanic ?
There was nothing wrong with the handbrake and no underlying problem, the only problem we had was a S**T of a tester, my husband just did what he had to to get the tester to pass it, there is history between the tester and my family that I don't really want to go into on here, we have slackened the handbrake off again and we have had another tester check the handbrake who has said it feels absolutely fine. It is my father who has the new passat, I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced the speed that the car slows down, sorry for throwing that in and confusing everything , we have an older passat, we're not as wealthy as my dad
My husband has been a mechanic for 24 years.
|
Stealth
Super Moderator
|
Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 11:57 pm |
|
Judwud wrote: The repairs made were new discs, pads, tighten handbrake cable to max, which I have since readjusted as the brakes were binding.
On a different note, has anyone ever used the parking brake in the new passats to stop before? it is very efficient very weird, lol.
As Kev said previously - not good practice just to tighten the cable - you still need to sort out the underlying problem with the operating/adjusting mechanism.
Skilled mechanic ?
|
Judwud
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 11:51 pm |
|
KevG wrote: Judwud.
In my earlier post I said.
"DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO ADJUST?TIGHTEN THE CABLE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM"
May I suggest if you don't know how to adjust your brakes correctly that you do not touch them at all? I failed a car yesterday that had been repaired incorrectly to the point of being a death trap. All I can say is that it frightens me.
However, Passat handbrakes. I believe if applied at speed the service brakes are applied to slow the car down.
Think I remember a post on here about it. Hi Kev, my husband is a skilled mechanic, he knows what he is doing with braking systems, the problem is he has no testers licence, so although he knew the cars brakes were fine, he did not have the authority to argue with the tester, the fact is that this particular test station has lost approx 15-20 tests per year from us as we will never take another car to them again, their loss I think If the garage owner wasn't a friend I wouldn't have hesitated in reporting the tester, but I have a strong feeling that it was a personal reason why the tester failed our car, like I said, their loss.
|
KevG
Super Moderator
|
Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 09:34 pm |
|
Judwud.
In my earlier post I said.
"DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO ADJUST?TIGHTEN THE CABLE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM"
May I suggest if you don't know how to adjust your brakes correctly that you do not touch them at all? I failed a car yesterday that had been repaired incorrectly to the point of being a death trap. All I can say is that it frightens me.
However, Passat handbrakes. I believe if applied at speed the service brakes are applied to slow the car down.
Think I remember a post on here about it.
|
Stealth
Super Moderator
|
Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 07:28 pm |
|
Judwud wrote: Thank you for your input Stealth  . Are you a VOSA official?
|
Judwud
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 06:59 pm |
|
Thank you for your input Stealth . Are you a VOSA official?
Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2010 07:00 pm by Judwud
|
Stealth
Super Moderator
|
Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 03:56 pm |
|
martins wrote: Before we close this, would Stealth care to comment?
I'll put aside the advice that has been offered to Judwud & refer back to the Testers Manual.
The MOT test procedures, and 'Methods of Inspection' are meant to be conducted in a manner which is sympathetic to the vehicle, and is meant to be as 'non-intrusive' as possible (corrosion assessment excluded) with no dismantling or removal of components (wheel trims included)  in order to prevent possible damage to your customer's vehicles.
Regards the parking brake, the inspection is sperated into two areas, with section 3.1 covering the 'Parking Brake Lever Mechanism and Associated Mountings.
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m3s03000101.htm
Method of Inspection 5 states -
Without operating the pawl mechanism, apply the parking brake slowly and check the effective operation of the pawl mechanism by listening for definite and regular clicks as the pawl moves over the ratchet teeth.
Method of Inspection 6b states -
(When the brake is fully applied) check that the lever is not at the end of its working travel and that there is no fouling of adjacent parts
It appears clear from this that there is no need to do anything other than to apply the handbrake in the normal manner, so it seems to me that the garage owners comments '' they have to yank on the handbrake, it is part of the test'' is perhaps misguided.
Section 3.7 refers to the roller brake test.
This section refers to both service (footbrake) and parking (handbrake) testing.
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m3s03000701.htm
The key word here is 'gradually' with reference to application of both footbrake & handbrake, until maximum effort is achieved, or wheelslip occurs (brake locks) We are not conducting emergency stops here.
Reserve travel is required at the handbrake lever in order to ensure that the brakes can be FULLY applied (making allowances for cable stretch etc) BEFORE the lever hits the stop.
It's perfectly possible for the brakes to lock AND the lever reach the end of it's travel. (I came across one case where the floor pan was fractured around the handbrake lever mounting - the whole lot was flexing !!)
Again, from what has been described so far in this thread, it would appear that the tester was perhaps misguided in his interpretation.
If I was conducting an observed test and saw a tester doing what has been claimed in Judwud's posts - he (or she) would be on the recieving end of an official bollo*king.
|
Judwud
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 10:02 am |
|
The repairs made were new discs, pads, tighten handbrake cable to max, which I have since readjusted as the brakes were binding. I do understand the reason for reserve travel, but as I said before, the tester was yanking really hard on the handbrake to get it to the top, the VOSA official that I have been emailing has stated that the handbrake should be applied in the normal way (as if parking the car), I don't know of anybody with any sense that yanks on a handbrake, but when I approached the garage owner about this he said they have to yank on the handbrake, it is part of the test.
On a different note, has anyone ever used the parking brake in the new passats to stop before? it is very efficient very weird, lol.
|
KevG
Super Moderator
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 10:32 pm |
|
Good Point T Shirt.
In the US they call it the "Emergency brake"
Kev
|
Tshirt
Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 13th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 86 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |   |
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 10:04 pm |
|
I can see both sides, but i would like to point out (as no one else has), the reason you need reserve travel is so that you can apply a mechanical brake in the event of a hydraulic failure, the test on the rollers is really nothing to do with it, you may be able to lock an unladen vehicles wheels at 3 mph with half of the travel, but its another thing trying to slow down a car traveling at say 50mph, possibly with passengers and a hydraulic failure, the fact that your handbrake reaches the top shows your braking system is in need of attention, in an emergency situation you would have 'no reserve travel'.
The tester would have to feel for how the handbrake is working, and make a decision from that and previous experiences with similar models, he obviously thought there was a problem, you say you have made repairs already, but you didn't say what you repaired?
|
martins
Administrator
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 05:56 pm |
|
| Before we close this, would Stealth care to comment?
|
bimmer
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 478 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 05:51 pm |
|
hi
no problem, hope you get everything sorted.
|
Judwud
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 01:57 pm |
|
Sorry bimmer, I just assumed you would've read the rest of the posts that I've put on, I did mention in the third post that he was yanking on it, ah well, if there's one thing I do know, assumption is the mother of all f*** ups . I appreciate all feedback received, I know that my poor explanations have made it really difficult to comment properly, but I think we've got there in the end, thanks everyone!
|
bimmer
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 478 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 09:35 am |
|
hi judwud
my comments were based on your original post and there was no mention of yanking so no point missed if your handbrake was yanked up then i agree that it was an unfair test of reserve travel, and should be tested as per normal use.
Last edited on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 10:00 am by bimmer
|
Judwud
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25th, 2010 08:41 am |
|
Martins, that was my point exactly, the travel that was left after locking the rollers is the reserve travel, but apparently not, but what the tester shouldn't do is pull up really hard on the handbrake, they should apply the handbrake as if they were parking the car. When I questioned the owner about the fail he showed me how far up the handbrake went, to get the handbrake nearly to the top he yanked the handbrake lever. I said no one puts their handbrake on like that, it doesn't need to be pulled up that far to work and surely you are at risk of stretching the cables a damaging the discs and pads, and he said there are things on a test we have to do that you wouldn't normally do in driving, for example, you would never rev you car engine at full throttle for ten seconds, but we have to with diesels to test the emissions. Turns out that's not true either If I knew then what I know, I would have told him friendship or no friendship, I'm going to appeal, who needs friends, eh?
The point bimmer and mark2 seem to be missing is that he wasn't just pulling the handbrake on, he was yanking it on, no mechanic should yank on a handbrake, it makes more sense to put the handbrake on as if you were parking the car not to have a contest who can yank the handbrake up the furthest. And yes, I agree, the handbrake should be checked for reserve travel while doing the interior checks and the reserve travel has nothing to do with if the brakes lock the rollers, but my tester should not have pulled my handbrake up as hard as he did. It shouldn't have failed.
|
mark2
Member
|
Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 06:26 pm |
|
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m3s03000101.htm section 6 6. When the brake is fully applied
a. knock the top and each side of the
lever and check that the lever
stays in the “on” position
b. check that the lever is not at the
end of its working travel and that
there is no fouling of adjacent
parts
I usually check handbrake travel whilst doing the interior checks, as such, no brake readings or locking have any effect on pass or fail at this stage.
The comment regarding stretching the cable etc, if you can stretch it whilst operating the handbrake then that should be an RfR any way.
I've only once had a handbrake cable fail when testing, that was when testing performance and there was next to no travel on the handbrake lever.
|
bimmer
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 478 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 05:38 pm |
|
my understanding of reserve travel is what is left after the lever cant be pulled up any further and before it reaches the top. judwud said he was told the tester could pull the lever to the top, so there was no reserve travel. i would imagine this is why he failed it.
Last edited on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 05:46 pm by bimmer
|
martins
Administrator
|
Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 04:59 pm |
|
A good point I imagine – how would you judge reserve travel if you can't see how many ratchet teeth are unused?
It seems to make sense that if the wheels lock at a given point of lever travel, and the lever can then continue past that point, there is your reserve travel.
|
Judwud
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 03:24 pm |
|
I will let the testing station know about the email I've got, but in all fairness I did try to explain to the owner of the garage that I have asked VOSA for their opinion but he wasn't interested in anything that VOSA had said and that he had got much bigger problems than my handbrake to worry about (how to win friends and influence people) But I haven't named the garage as he is supposed to be my mate, I suppose that this is another reason why I felt so upset about this, plus the owner doesn't have his testers licence so he can only tell me what his tester says.
I just wanted to make sense of the 3.1.6b rule. My car did also fail on front brakes as well but we were sort of expecting it, we knew the discs were near their limit so it isn't just sour grapes because my car failed, I genuinely believed that the tester was just being an ar*e and just making it as difficult as possible for us, and it turned out he was!
Plus I cannot appeal the failure as I have already carried out work on the car to get it through the test 
Never mind, I know for next time
Last edited on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 03:46 pm by Judwud
|
Current time is 07:41 pm | Page: 1 2   |
|
