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NITROS44
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Posted: Fri Feb 3rd, 2012 10:50 pm |
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I understand that you are not to bothered at the present time regarding subsequant mot"s but it may be of value to know a few things regarding the the next mot,
If you present your jag for the next mot; for the pupose of the emmisions part of the test it will be treated as such as being a passenger car 1st used before 1st Aug 1975 which will be visual only,this is due to the vehicle being presented on a Q plate,A section in the inspection manual is there for guidedance so what ever it says on the log book or other material wont matter to a tester as he has to do what is instructed in the manual,
For the remainder of the mot the vehicle will have to meet the standards with regard to a vehicle 1st used before 1 Aug 1971 so the tester can only apply the standards laid out up to that date meaning that some items may not meet the standard for the original year it was 1st used 1997.but will meet the standard for vehicle 1st used before 1st Aug 1975,such as a side repeater for example ;these were not brought in till 1986,so if one was not working at the time of test it will not fail,but i am sure that you sound like a person who is responsible and would want this working anyway,if you know what i mean
I would not be worried about the tester looking for a vin number as due to the Q plate once agian this is not required for the purpose of the test as these were not required till 1st Aug 1980,from a vosa point of view it will not be required,
Having it on a Q plate does have its advantagesHowever if you keep it maintained,,,, which am sure you will it will exceed the standards and fly though the mot every year,lol
It may be a good idea to read the manual and see what the standards are with ref to the 1st used dates and find out what is required, if you are intrested of course? or you can always use the forums and we can make it more confusing for you LOL
please keep in touch and let us know how you get on or need more infomation/guidance
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speedview
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Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2012 11:53 pm |
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NICE JOB BY THE WAY
Cheers!
I think it'll be good for a laugh anyhow - just need to find a 24 ft caravan next to strip out, tow behing, and use as the emergency rain shelter for the car... 
It won't need to be towable with the car inside so not too many worries about payload, so long as the wheels sit over a chassis rail not over unsupported floor!
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speedview
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Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2012 11:47 pm |
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Referring to the speciific limits emissions data on VOSA"s website for a XJ8 4 LITRE vin serial number from 812256 does have an entry on page 51.
Cheers Nitros44 - I'll point the IVA test guy in the direction of this document on the day:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/In%20Service%20Exhaust%20Emission%20Standards%20-%2016th%20Edition.pdf
Largely moot now, as the Jaguar limits are indeed the same as the default IVA limits.
I would presume that going off the info provided that it will be known before the IVA INSPECTION that the vehicle will end up having a Q plate and the vehicle will be treated as vehicle before 1st Aug 1975,for emission purposes.
Absolutely NOT. (unfortunately - lets just say 175,000 miles on an original Nikasil bore engine results in it not being in its first flush of youth)
VOSA:
IVA doesn't give a monkeys about the registration plate (the vehicle, as presented, will not have one) but it will have a VIN. If you built the chassis/monocoque yourself, from all new bits, you get to choose a VIN. If you use any part of a previously registered monocoque or chassis as part of the build, you need to apply to DVLA to be issued a Local Office VIN first.
At IVA it gets tested to a set of default limits based on the age of the donor engine. (and if you can find a specific entry that says it can be dirtier or it must be cleaner than the default limits, it'll get tested to that - hence the interest)
They provide the details of the emissions test that the vehicle had to meet on the IVA paperwork when you pass (to the best of my knowledge) and this goes against the VIN in VOSA's MOT database.
DVLA:
Then you then make the trip to DVLA. DVLA decide which plate to issue. Assuming that your clerk does the right thing... ...if you use any part of a previously registered monocoque or chassis as part of the build and its modified its an automatic Q-plate, so this should go straight onto a Q.
I've chatted to the bloke who sent that letter and he seems to know his stuff, but it took a couple of months for my letters to finally cross his desk. Other fools at DVLA Swansea told me that lopping the roof off was cosmetic/not a radical alternation and directed me to get it MOTed then all would be well, rather than admitting that they simply didn't know. This would be fine if it were only their backside that took all the grief for driving what would be an unregistered vehicle on the public road, which would be otherwise than in accordance with the driving licence and almost certainly not insured either - but we all know who the crown persecution service would target.
Cant see the point of it being tested using specific limits at the IVA inspection stage because when next years mot is due the emissions will be visual
amature built cars and kit cars have there emmisions data on v5/log book but when yours is presented for future mot"s the tester will be directed to the relevant section in the inspection manual for testing Q plate vehicles.
As I understand it: If you as the tester know the date of first use (if it comes up on the MOT database) then it should be tested to the appropriate emissions standards. The date of first use *should* be on the databse (or V5) if the various clerks have done their jobs properly.
You only get to test a Q-plate for visible smoke if it doesn't show up with a date of first use, which shouldn't happen with this vehicle, or any other vehicle using bits of determinate age.
Loads of Q-plates do go through on it and I doubt the owners are going to complain much if you don't look too closely, but I don't think its right!
My main interest was in what it would get tested to at the IVA itself though - replacement engine NOW, or when it eventually goes bang. At 200 ppm HC fast idle and 0.5% CO tickover with cats I think we'll chance it. The MX5 used to eat a litre of oil every 1000 miles (early Mk2, oil control ring issue) and that'd sneak through with a hot cat.
Get it nice and hot and have all the info at the ready for the VOSA test guy to get started and through the emissions as quickly as possible. It is 90 quid for a partial retest if it fails (cure - borrow the engine from a mate's X308, but what a polava to swap back and forth) but as there's a fair chance it gets picked up on some other niggle anyway (lots of OEM fitted trim will fail an IVA test as too sharp/hard) its not too big a risk. If it were 0.1% CO or fewer HCs though I wouldn't even bother trying!
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NITROS44
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Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2012 08:45 pm |
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(speedview wrote: Afraid not - it falls under the "radically altered" category due to changes to the shell:
http://www.cosic.org.uk/MarkoStuff/xj8/XJ8%20-%20Jan%202012%203/images/img_8451.jpg
Original registration and VIN are invalidated. Vehicle goes for an IVA test as a 2012 build, using parts from a 1997 donor vehicle. Emissions (at IVA) are *either* the default limits, *or* (if listed on the MOT system for the original car) the vehicle specific limits for a 1997 Jaguar XJ8. An exact match *will* be found, as it is the VSI for the original donor car's reg/VIN that you use.
Subsequent MOTs are *either* what DVLA put on the V5 and VOSA put onto their computer system (sometimes they come up on the MOT computer) *or* if nothing else is available its the 1971 visual emissions only due to the Q-plate. I'm not interested in this at the moment though.
There's a whole heap of confusion about it all though - kit cars or stolen/revcovered and bitsa vehicles are bad enough, but radically altered (and correctly registered) vehicles are even worse as they're such a rarity.
Here's the spiel from DVLA for those interested - all pretty clear.
http://www.cosic.org.uk/MarkoStuff/xj8/XJ_DVLA/
New VIN:
http://www.cosic.org.uk/MarkoStuff/xj8/XJ_DVLA/images/dvla_reply_2_001.jpg
http://www.cosic.org.uk/MarkoStuff/xj8/XJ_DVLA/images/dvla_reply_2_003.jpg
Cheers,
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M
Q-plate as 1971 only applies if the info doesn't pop up - for more recent registrations it can be there.
NT's will normally be provided with the vehicle details as part of the Vehicle Specific Information supplied by the MOT database. This will usually Include the vehicle's 'first used' date. Where this information Is available, the NT should only use Reasons for Rejections applicable to the vehicle's age.
However, In cases where this Information Is not available or incorrect, the NT should determine the vehicle's 'first used' date as follows;
a. Its date of manufacture, If the vehicle was originally used without being
registered in QB (e.g., an Imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle),
or
b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to
be treated as being first used on 1 January 1971, or
c. In any other case, the earlier of either
. Its date of first registration, or
. The date six months after It was manufactured.
This information should be entered onto the VTS Device to enable the NT to select the appropriate Reason for Rejection. Hi M,
The way i read your 1st post i was under the impression that the vehicle had been fitted with a different engine,however reading though your build notes and correspondence with DVLA the engine has remained the same and its just been radically modified.bodywork wise.
Referring to the speciific limits emissions data on VOSA"s website for a XJ8 4 LITRE vin serial number from 812256 does have an entry on page 51.
I would presume that going off the info provided that it will be known before the IVA INSPECTION that the vehicle will end up having a Q plate and the vehicle will be treated as vehicle before 1st Aug 1975,for emission purposes.
Cant see the point of it being tested using specific limits at the IVA inspection stage because when next years mot is due the emissions will be visual
amature built cars and kit cars have there emmisions data on v5/log book but when yours is presented for future mot"s the tester will be directed to the relevant section in the inspection manual for testing Q plate vehicles.
NICE JOB BY THE WAY
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speedview
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Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2012 10:26 am |
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Afraid not - it falls under the "radically altered" category due to changes to the shell:
http://www.cosic.org.uk/MarkoStuff/xj8/XJ8%20-%20Jan%202012%203/images/img_8451.jpg
Original registration and VIN are invalidated. Vehicle goes for an IVA test as a 2012 build, using parts from a 1997 donor vehicle. Emissions (at IVA) are *either* the default limits, *or* (if listed on the MOT system for the original car) the vehicle specific limits for a 1997 Jaguar XJ8. An exact match *will* be found, as it is the VSI for the original donor car's reg/VIN that you use.
Subsequent MOTs are *either* what DVLA put on the V5 and VOSA put onto their computer system (sometimes they come up on the MOT computer) *or* if nothing else is available its the 1971 visual emissions only due to the Q-plate. I'm not interested in this at the moment though.
There's a whole heap of confusion about it all though - kit cars or stolen/revcovered and bitsa vehicles are bad enough, but radically altered (and correctly registered) vehicles are even worse as they're such a rarity.
Here's the spiel from DVLA for those interested - all pretty clear.
http://www.cosic.org.uk/MarkoStuff/xj8/XJ_DVLA/
New VIN:
http://www.cosic.org.uk/MarkoStuff/xj8/XJ_DVLA/images/dvla_reply_2_001.jpg
http://www.cosic.org.uk/MarkoStuff/xj8/XJ_DVLA/images/dvla_reply_2_003.jpg
Cheers,
--
M
Q-plate as 1971 only applies if the info doesn't pop up - for more recent registrations it can be there.
NT's will normally be provided with the vehicle details as part of the Vehicle Specific Information supplied by the MOT database. This will usually Include the vehicle's 'first used' date. Where this information Is available, the NT should only use Reasons for Rejections applicable to the vehicle's age.
However, In cases where this Information Is not available or incorrect, the NT should determine the vehicle's 'first used' date as follows;
a. Its date of manufacture, If the vehicle was originally used without being
registered in QB (e.g., an Imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle),
or
b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to
be treated as being first used on 1 January 1971, or
c. In any other case, the earlier of either
. Its date of first registration, or
. The date six months after It was manufactured.
This information should be entered onto the VTS Device to enable the NT to select the appropriate Reason for Rejection.
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Wesley
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2012 11:17 pm |
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NITROS44 wrote: Hi Marko
"An exact match wont be found"?, so it will be tested to the standard whats the oldest,the car or the engine?due to it not being registered as a Q plate yet
If the engine is from 1994 car for example and your car is a 1997,the 1994 standard will be applied.,However i think proof of age will be required
Either way it looks like it will tested using the default limits.
If the emmision standard remains the same when presented for an mot next year then the standard for Q plated vehicles applys which is 1st Aug 1975 which is visual assesment for the purpose of the emmisions test
Good luck 
And there`s "Me" thinking that, You are one of the new "suits"?
The Vehicle (a modified vehicle) "kit car", Can Be Presented for an "IVA"? and Not an "SVA"?
"Registered Plate and Original Vin" Included!
so No "Q" plate required or available!
ps; that`s a saving of over £450 quid please! All Donations to the "RNLI"!
thanks.
Last edited on Tue Jan 31st, 2012 11:41 pm by Wesley
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NITROS44
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2012 10:44 pm |
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Proud to be professional wrote: If I remember correctly VOSA say that the IVA takes about 4. 5 Hrs to complete, so I wouldn't get any hopes up that they will test the emissions in a couple of minutes.
And expensive,there again it can take a while to examine vehicles subject to iva due to the nature whats involved regarding the inspection
Last edited on Tue Jan 31st, 2012 10:44 pm by NITROS44
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NITROS44
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2012 10:32 pm |
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Hi Marko
An exact match wont be found so it will be tested to the standard whats the oldest,the car or the engine?due to it not being registered as a Q plate yet
If the engine is from 1994 car for example and your car is a 1997,the 1994 standard will be applied.,However i think proof of age will be required
Either way it looks like it will tested using the default limits.
If the emmision standard remains the same when presented for an mot next year then the standard for Q plated vehicles applys which is 1st Aug 1975 which is visual assesment for the purpose of the emmisions test
Good luck
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Proud to be professional
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2012 10:18 pm |
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| If I remember correctly VOSA say that the IVA takes about 4. 5 Hrs to complete, so I wouldn't get any hopes up that they will test the emissions in a couple of minutes.
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speedview
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2012 09:42 pm |
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Hi Kev,
Once it is registered, yes. Either they add what it met at VOSA during the IVA test to the V5/computer system at DVLA when you register. (and you test to that when presented, or where not available/filled in it reverts to the smoke only test)
What its asked to meet at IVA depends on what the donor vehicle had to meet though. Its either got a specific entry for that XJ8 on the system (that an MOT tester can see with the reg/vin/model details) or it gets tested to the default limits.
Oddball I know!
I'm trying to establish the answer in advance so that I arrive at 07:59 having driven the past 10 miles in 2nd and the chap at VOSA can complete the emissions test/fill in the box by 08:01. Not that its marginal or anything...
Cheers,
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MarkoLast edited on Tue Jan 31st, 2012 09:48 pm by speedview
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kev1975
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2012 09:38 pm |
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speedview wrote:
Hi folks,
1997 Jaguar XJ8 4 litre (early X308/V8 version, not the X300/6cyl version), VRM was R32 FND, VIN was SAJJHAMD3CR821381
Engine is fitted to a vehicle going for an IVA test (to be issued with Q-plate and new VIN) and will need to establish emissions limits.
IVA emissions handbook mentions a default limit of <0.3% CO and <200 ppm HC with lambda between 0.97 and 1.03 at fast idle, 0.5% CO at idle - UNLESS you can find an exact match in the In-Service emissions book:
Can you find an exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book?
NOTE: Exact Match To find an exact match in the current emissions data book, you will need the make, Model and other data such as engine size, model code, engine code, VIN code or serial number.
Is there a specific entry please? Any special notes etc? Thanks!
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Marko
for emission purposes a vehicle on a q plate is treated as being registered in 1971 ( if my memory serves me correctly ) so that would be a visual test .
otherwise it would go to default limits as there would not be an exact match
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speedview
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2012 01:21 pm |
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Hi folks,
1997 Jaguar XJ8 4 litre (early X308/V8 version, not the X300/6cyl version), VRM was R32 FND, VIN was SAJJHAMD3CR821381
Engine is fitted to a vehicle going for an IVA test (to be issued with Q-plate and new VIN) and will need to establish emissions limits.
IVA emissions handbook mentions a default limit of <0.3% CO and <200 ppm HC with lambda between 0.97 and 1.03 at fast idle, 0.5% CO at idle - UNLESS you can find an exact match in the In-Service emissions book:
Can you find an exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book?
NOTE: Exact Match To find an exact match in the current emissions data book, you will need the make, Model and other data such as engine size, model code, engine code, VIN code or serial number.
Is there a specific entry please? Any special notes etc? Thanks!
--
Marko
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