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Will my car fail MOT because of headlights  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 07:12 pm
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Proud to be professional
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In other Countries it might be legal to drive in daylight with the headlamps on, but the last time I read anything in this Country I seem to remember it was not legal, which does not necessary mean the law might not have changed, but again in this Country I can see any valid point of driving in the daytime with the headlamps on!

So to sum up without checking the latest legislation I can say 100% whether I am right or wrong, but I do know beyond doubt that if headlamps should be switched on via the light switch, and they are on all the time, then the light switch cannot be operated and know whether it works or not, and as VOSA have not put a note in the reference column, it is something they have not yet thought about?

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 07:11 pm
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Stealth
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Proud to be professional wrote:
Now where was we at?

Oh yes the operation of the light switch?

I said it was the same operation for both bikes and cars according to the manuals, so then if the lights are on all the time by design and VOSA say they should be switched on by the operation of the light switch, are you know going to say that I am going away from the original conversation, or can we now say that we have the authority to over rule VOSA and their rule book for mot's?

You can't have it both ways, so which is it?

:)


To follow this pedantic line of argument would mean that you would have to follow IM 1.7 - Method of Inspection 1, and Reason for Rejection 1 to it's natural conclusion & fail a vehicle for a headlamp switch being missing - even if one was not fitted originally by design & dipped beam was hard-wired.

That is - of course - if you don't want to over-rule VOSA
:D

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 07:05 pm
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PTBP  This was my answer in the first reply on this thread.

"Assuming they are all working and the sidelights can be turned on with the ignition off,I would pass and advise. you should be ok. as you say volvos are like that anyway."

Maybe I should have closed thread that point?

You've still not admitted you were wrong about the headlight use in the day?

And you were way off the mark with the Swedish thing!  LOL

In my opinion you're making it up as you go along.

No offence.

 

 

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 07:05 pm
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Stealth wrote:
Proud to be professional wrote:


then surely VOSA must be wrong then and not me!



:shock: Surely you are not claiming that VOSA get it wrong so many times yet you are ALWAYS right EVERY time David :shock:


I had no part in writing that part of the manual lol;),but given your experience I am somewhat supprised you didn't let them know;)

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 06:58 pm
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Stealth
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Proud to be professional wrote:


then surely VOSA must be wrong then and not me!



:shock: Surely you are not claiming that VOSA get it wrong so many times yet you are ALWAYS right EVERY time David :shock:

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 06:49 pm
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KevG
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"One might also consider that driving in day light with headlamps switched on is also illegal, although nothing to do with the mot test, but is something else to think about, especially if you are a biker lol:D"


PROUD TO BE PROFFESIONAL  2012

 

 

 
Never tell a biker how ride his bike

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 06:45 pm
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How wrong can you be?

Stick to what your good at?

I did only quote VOSA's manual,if the manufacturers have designed the lights to be automatically on ALL the time as you both say, then surely VOSA must be wrong then and not me!

If then in those circumstances you can't check the operation of the switch, and you clearly cannot, then you can't know whether the switch is faulty or not, so should be a pass and advise then, but I'll bet neither of you ever do a pass and advise knowing what you know?

Maybe being in the know just might not be the right type of knowing what you really need to know:D

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 06:39 pm
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Stealth
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KevG wrote:



Maybe stick to what your good at PTBP ?



What's that Kev - stirring ;)

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 06:37 pm
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KevG
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I was referring to this, and I quote:

 

"One might also consider that driving in day light with headlamps switched on is also illegal, although nothing to do with the mot test, but is something else to think about, especially if you are a biker lol:D"

 

And I am a biker. So is stealth.


Maybe stick to what your good at PTBP ?

How wrong can you be?

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 06:15 pm
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Now where was we at?

Oh yes the operation of the light switch?

I said it was the same operation for both bikes and cars according to the manuals, so then if the lights are on all the time by design and VOSA say they should be switched on by the operation of the light switch, are you know going to say that I am going away from the original conversation, or can we now say that we have the authority to over rule VOSA and their rule book for mot's?

You can't have it both ways, so which is it?

:)

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 05:41 pm
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PTBP has "done one" I reckon.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2012 07:48 am
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spotty wrote: I tested a car a while back, the lights switched on/off as you would expect them to, but if either of the indicators were operated with the light switch off, the dipped beams, tail and registration plate lamps would come on.  Dangerous in my opinion as another driver may think that you are signalling them to pull out when making a right turn.

I would have failed the indicators for 'adversely affecting the operation of another lamp'


The part that I wrote is in the first quote + there was a bit more to my post.  The second quote above was not written by me.

To reiterate, I phoned the VOSA help line, put it to them about it adversely affecting another lamp.  As all the lights came on (as if they had been turned on with the switch) and were functioning perfectly, they said that there was no adverse affect on them.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 20th, 2012 11:05 pm
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In between the light switch and the lamp units is a body control module on these models and if the control module does not get the switch off signal  from the light switch itself on the stork then the lights will remain on unless the ignition is turned off,this problem is indicating a faulty switch.This may or may not be the case here:)

This  scenario could  not be  be determined at the time of the mot so pass/advise in my opinion as the inspection manual does state check the operation of the switch, and rfr switch faulty,but my understanding on this relates to faults that are visible on the switch and that the switch has a definite action, A faulty switch in its relation to supply power to the lamps would need diagnosing and is beyond the scope of the test.So in my opinion the switch may be faulty and not supplying power to the lamps; but could not be failed as how could it be  known its 100% the switch at fault:)pass/advise

It may be worth mentioning that some of the new Fiat models such as the grand punto and the 500"s are fitted with automatic driving lights which are not headlights by the way ;these along with the rear postion lamps will operate with the ignition on independently of the stork switch if my memory servs me correct ;they can be turned off via the menu function on the dashboard:)

A trip to the dealers may be benificial to get they opinion but mot wise in my opinion would be pass/advise;)






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 Posted: Tue Mar 20th, 2012 10:31 pm
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Common thing with Fiats and has been for ooh last 20 years or so is sidelights only come on with ignition ON. They should still operate by the switch though.They normally have a button just under the ignition barrel which you press and turn ignition key back a notch more than normal and remove key - this give you parking lights. Twas the way they were designed I'm afraid same as Lada's but guess not many on here remember that far back :shock:


Last edited on Tue Mar 20th, 2012 10:42 pm by fedup

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 Posted: Tue Mar 20th, 2012 05:53 pm
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leebennett04 wrote:
Hi
I have a fiat grande punto
The cars headlights and rear lights are permanantly on when the ignition is turned over
Turining the stick has no effect whatsover, but if you want to flash your lights or put main beam on with the same stick then that is fine so everything works except turning the lights on and off



Hi lee - welcome to the Forum - a baptism of fire considering some of the replies to your post.

I have one relevant question related to your lights & the MOT requirements.

Can the sidelights be switched on with the ignition OFF ?

;)

Last edited on Tue Mar 20th, 2012 05:55 pm by Stealth

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 Posted: Tue Mar 20th, 2012 05:51 pm
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Proud to be professional wrote:


One might also consider that driving in day light with headlamps switched on is also illegal, although nothing to do with the mot test, but is something else to think about, especially if you are a biker lol:D


It became mandatory in 2004 under EU regs for ALL motorcycles to have the dipped beam permenantly wired ON -so far none of my bikes have ever suffered from an electrical overload as a result of this legislative requirement.

It is not an offence to drive during daylight hours with dipped beam on.

It is only a failure if, when operated, the relevant switch does not operate the relevant lamp.

Last edited on Tue Mar 20th, 2012 05:56 pm by Stealth

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 Posted: Tue Mar 20th, 2012 08:33 am
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The reason most Scandinavian countries require DRL's is nothing to do with the longer nights in winter, it stems back to circa 1970 when Sweden switched from LHD to RHD.
They thought it would be a safety factor if all vehicles used dip head lamps for a six month period. It was shown that after the switch over accidents fell rather than the expected rise. This was put down to the Dipped head lamp requirement so they extended it for a further 6 months, and then made it permanent.
Don

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 Posted: Tue Mar 20th, 2012 07:53 am
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I tested a car a while back, the lights switched on/off as you would expect them to, but if either of the indicators were operated with the light switch off, the dipped beams, tail and registration plate lamps would come on.  Dangerous in my opinion as another driver may think that you are signalling them to pull out when making a right turn.

I would have failed the indicators for 'adversely affecting the operation of another lamp'

Last edited on Tue Mar 20th, 2012 06:01 pm by

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 Posted: Mon Mar 19th, 2012 09:59 pm
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KevG
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STILL VERY QUIET

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 Posted: Mon Mar 19th, 2012 09:58 pm
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http://www.driving.co.uk/driving-news/day-time-running-lights-to-become-law

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