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volksjim
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 11:06 pm |
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Bright Ideas? wrote:
I asked the question on my last refresher course regarding the "Items not tested" function, I was advised that the reason that function is there is to allow VE's to bypass some parts of the mot examination, i.e. a recently tested vehicle had passed the emissions test, where the printout is available and the VE has seen it, so no need to carry out further emissions test by VE.
the problem herein lies that using the item not tested function automatically results in a VT30 being issued !!!i had a vt55 "station visit"at my last station and i had used the function along with a PRS for a headlamp bulb//aim..i was asked why i did it and the VE said he didn't have a problem because i wasn't hiding anything ..all i want is a straight answer as per manual//testing guide to use or not..i still believe "the guru"stealth..but always get conflicting information from local VE'S
can of worms here
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Wesley
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 10:02 pm |
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KevG wrote: ? When someone deciphers that please let me know !
don`t you mean interpre-"tated"?
"cheesy ones"
"brake application" uneven, "brake release" uneven.
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KevG
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 09:43 pm |
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| ? When someone deciphers that please let me know !
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Bright Ideas?
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 08:46 pm |
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kit1958 wrote: I have used the "item not tested" when I have come across a binding brake, making it impossable to assess a wheel bearing, as instructed be our VE. How else do you cya on an item you can not asses? Should the whole test be abandoned?
PS if I remeber correct it was shown on vt30 as not tested. Where is the prob?
I asked the question on my last refresher course regarding the "Items not tested" function, I was advised that the reason that function is there is to allow VE's to bypass some parts of the mot examination, i.e. a recently tested vehicle had passed the emissions test, where the printout is available and the VE has seen it, so no need to carry out further emissions test by VE.
The other point(s), i.e. binding brakes and wheel bearings not fully examined are good examples. The roller brake test would indicate a binding brake, if slightly then that part is a pass and advise, if significant then it fails, as we all know, but there are other areas of a roller brake test, which in my experience would pick up other faults that will cause the binding brake to fail a test, even if advised as slightly binding, please let me explain further;
The rate of increase and decrease of brakes applies to both the steered axle and the rear axle. Having been advised from VOSA their interpretation of "Increase and Decrease" at about the "Same Rate" has been advised to be at about 20Kgf indifference across the axle being tested.
So in regards the steered axle, if a brake is binding would the brakes across the front axle increase at about the same rate from rest upto and including 40Kgf across the axle, at which point further application of the brake is then looking for an out of balance below 25%.
When the front brakes efforts reduce with a binding brake, would the brakes efforts reduce at about the same rate, i.e. within 20Kgf indifference across the axle?
The roller brake test will fail most brake defects if carried out as per the manual guidlines, but must be correctly interpretated otherwise defects can be passed where they should fail?
With regards a binding brake stopping a full assessment of a wheel bearing, we were also informed on the last refresher course that it is a pass and advise, and if a retest is necessary, then it is checked on the retest and if necessary a further VT30 issued, unless its OK.
Sorry for the rant but could not explain it in a short hand version, might not have been understood
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KevG
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 07:45 pm |
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Why would you abandon the test?
If the brake is binding you can't asses the the bearings.
Would you abandon the test if a front indicator bulb is blown ( as you are unable to asses the colour?) Of course not.
When you retest the brake you test the bearing, if it is rough etc. fail it.
Kev
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kit1958
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 07:25 pm |
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I have used the "item not tested" when I have come across a binding brake, making it impossable to assess a wheel bearing, as instructed be our VE. How else do you cya on an item you can not asses? Should the whole test be abandoned?
PS if I remeber correct it was shown on vt30 as not tested. Where is the prob?Last edited on Tue Mar 15th, 2011 07:27 pm by kit1958
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volksjim
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 07:01 pm |
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KevG wrote: Volks jim. Your second scenario re. headlamp bulb.
RFR box says: (To paraphrase)
1."Headlamps defects that DO require further beam test ."
2."Headlamp defects that DONT require a further beam test."
You use the first one!
You have tested the lamp, and it doesnt work, so you fail it and carry out the beam test on the retest.
The second one can be used if PRS'd or for main beam etc.
Stealth may have the exact wording, I dont have a manual here with me!
Kev
used that function kev but no note is automatically printed on either vt30 or vt32 to say that aim was not tested on items not tested i click check box headlamp aim not tested which results in an automatic fail ..also why am i gettin mixed messages from whatever VE i ask??? i had a peek through the users guide and there is no mention of the items not tested function????would it be too easy for vosa to issue a special notice regarding whether to use or not regarding this function???the last thing anyone would want is for action to be taken regarding use of this function..
stealth i believe you mate!!!is it in the users guide not to use this function?have i missed a special notice?why can it be accessed by mere nt's if its a VE function?i had to get my AE to authorise functions so i could order test slots and such like..should it not only be available to VE's? loads of questions here..sorry!! i am aware of the screen saying to use the abandon function if test can't be completed hence the question//confusion
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KevG
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 06:33 pm |
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Volks jim. Your second scenario re. headlamp bulb.
RFR box says: (To paraphrase)
1."Headlamps defects that DO require further beam test ."
2."Headlamp defects that DONT require a further beam test."
You use the first one!
You have tested the lamp, and it doesnt work, so you fail it and carry out the beam test on the retest.
The second one can be used if PRS'd or for main beam etc.
Stealth may have the exact wording, I dont have a manual here with me!
Kev
Last edited on Tue Mar 15th, 2011 06:34 pm by KevG
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KevG
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 06:27 pm |
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On a partial retest. the testing NT would only be liable for the retested item if it came to a disiplinary. (And related items I expect. ie any bolts calipers etc removed during repairs) so no real need to cover yourself.
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Bright Ideas?
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 06:18 pm |
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Wesley wrote: Stealth wrote: volksjim wrote: so do we or dont we use the items not tested box??? i seem to get a different answer from each VE...i use it and haven't been "done" yet!! 2 scenarios emissions test can't be done so do i abort test ???nope i just fail on items not tested and advise car might fail on retest......another one...dip beam bulb is out so do i still abort test because i can't test headlamp aim??? general concencus up here appears to use the function so who's right and who's wrong if the VE's don't all give the same reply to my question..whats the general take on it here??/?
Don't use it is the VOSA stance - use the abandon test function.
Items not tested is for VE use when partially re-examining a vehicle.
nice one, "what if"? an NT does a partial re-test on a vehicle examined by another NT?.........
My view, not section 8 drivers view of the road lol is to Pass and Advise
Along the lines of used as an example, just checked the fuel cap seal now OK, rest of vehicle condition unknown, having conducted a partial re-examination only, original NT's documents issued to account for orginal test results, or something like that?
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KevG
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Mar 15th, 2011 05:37 pm |
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Its for the VE.
Was told at m/c refresher last month that the reason its still visible to mere mortal NT's, is that Siemens wants an arm and a leg to revise the software?!
Kev
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Wesley
Trade Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 14th, 2011 11:05 pm |
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Stealth wrote: volksjim wrote: so do we or dont we use the items not tested box??? i seem to get a different answer from each VE...i use it and haven't been "done" yet!! 2 scenarios emissions test can't be done so do i abort test ???nope i just fail on items not tested and advise car might fail on retest......another one...dip beam bulb is out so do i still abort test because i can't test headlamp aim??? general concencus up here appears to use the function so who's right and who's wrong if the VE's don't all give the same reply to my question..whats the general take on it here??/?
Don't use it is the VOSA stance - use the abandon test function.
Items not tested is for VE use when partially re-examining a vehicle.
nice one, "what if"? an NT does a partial re-test on a vehicle examined by another NT?.........
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Stealth
Super Moderator
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Posted: Mon Mar 14th, 2011 10:24 pm |
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volksjim wrote: so do we or dont we use the items not tested box??? i seem to get a different answer from each VE...i use it and haven't been "done" yet!! 2 scenarios emissions test can't be done so do i abort test ???nope i just fail on items not tested and advise car might fail on retest......another one...dip beam bulb is out so do i still abort test because i can't test headlamp aim??? general concencus up here appears to use the function so who's right and who's wrong if the VE's don't all give the same reply to my question..whats the general take on it here??/?
Don't use it is the VOSA stance - use the abandon test function.
Items not tested is for VE use when partially re-examining a vehicle.
Last edited on Mon Mar 14th, 2011 10:27 pm by Stealth
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volksjim
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Posted: Mon Mar 14th, 2011 09:50 pm |
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| so do we or dont we use the items not tested box??? i seem to get a different answer from each VE...i use it and haven't been "done" yet!! 2 scenarios emissions test can't be done so do i abort test ???nope i just fail on items not tested and advise car might fail on retest......another one...dip beam bulb is out so do i still abort test because i can't test headlamp aim??? general concencus up here appears to use the function so who's right and who's wrong if the VE's don't all give the same reply to my question..whats the general take on it here??/?
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