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Pass or Fail. Daft Questions.  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Wed Dec 8th, 2010 08:39 pm
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Ian Hutchinson
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Mana: 
Roller brake testing older type land rovers with propshaft handbrakes.

 

The correct way to do the older type land rovers with a propshaft brake is to find the correct braking weight for the vehicle and work the formula backwards for example if the vehicle weight was 1500kg and we know that the least efficiency the handbrake can be is 16%. so the formula is: total brake effort (kg) divided by the DGW of the vehicle, times by 100 = efficency %.   so the formula we need is total brake effort (kg) divided by 1500 KG =16% efficency, so if we divide 16 by 100 gives you 0.16 then times it by 1500 (kg) that gives you 240 kg. We now have to half 240 so that gives us a braking effort for each wheel (120kg) so put your back wheels of the land rover in the rollers and make sure the land rover is in TWO WHEEL DRIVE and slowly apply the hand brake until the guage reaches 120 kg as soon as it reaches that point you know it is enough to pass so slowly release the handbrake. return vehicle to the condition it was presented for test by the presenter. for example put it back in 4wd if it was presented that way. hope this wasn't too complicated :?

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 Posted: Sun Dec 5th, 2010 03:51 pm
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kit1958
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Ho ho ho :D

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 Posted: Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 11:23 pm
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Wesley
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kit1958 wrote: Yes ok, but test conditions very differant from "real world braking" ;)
"snow joke"!;)

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 Posted: Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 08:20 pm
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kit1958
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Yes ok, but test conditions very differant from "real world braking" ;)

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 Posted: Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 08:06 pm
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spotty
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kit1958 wrote: Here is a question I was asked as I handed over a vt30 "how relavant is a brake immbalance test on a car with ABS ESP etc etc ?" The only answer I had was "It's in the book"
Anybody got any thoughts?
It's just as relevant as you don't always use your brakes to the threshold where the ABS cuts in.  The more efficient brake will want to lock first, so the ABS will cut in on that brake and you'll end up with the stopping distance of the less efficient brake.  It will reduce the imbalance, but it'll pull the good brake down to the level of the bad brake.

(Apologies Kit1958, this is completely different to my original post which you have replied to above)


Last edited on Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 08:35 pm by spotty

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 Posted: Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 06:42 pm
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kit1958
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Here is a question I was asked as I handed over a vt30 "how relavant is a brake immbalance test on a car with ABS ESP etc etc ?" The only answer I had was "It's in the book"
Anybody got any thoughts?

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 Posted: Mon Nov 22nd, 2010 04:48 pm
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Spongebob
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mark2 wrote: regarding the shaft end of the cv boot, I'm noticing a few nowadays where the inner clip is secure but still find a little grease seeping out. If its a metal clip a tweak with sidecutters or clip crimping tool will suffice

However at the shaft end it isn't subject to the amount of movement as at the housing and the grease is unlikely to fly.

I had a couple of cars in quick succession where the shaft clip was missing and water had got into the joint which had caused the joint to corrode and start seizing up. I don't know what happened to the grease but I guess it had been rendered useless by the water ingress. Neither was in for MOT I hasten to add.

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 Posted: Thu Nov 18th, 2010 11:43 pm
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Wesley
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kit1958 wrote: Ok thanks for answers / comments on ATL RBT it seems we have slight difference of opinions you can either say "don't believe result" and do tapley test or acept result and risk visit/comments from VE, or do test 2 times and see if result confirmed :?


I am with you kit,

if in doubt, carry out a second RBT.;)

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 Posted: Thu Nov 18th, 2010 08:00 pm
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kit1958
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Ok thanks for answers / comments on ATL RBT it seems we have slight differance of opinions you can either say "don't believe result" and do tapley test or acept result and risk visit/comments from VE, or do test 2 times and see if result confirmed :?
We had a visit from VE with face like smaked ar*e demanding demo test from NT after he checked some brakes we had failed on test and re test, he said he would be happy to pass on equipment he used,, but saw we was using our equip correctly.
Thank for note about tyres, I will look out for that.
I was happy to fail a Land Cruiser on a rear disc more than half worn away by a pad with no lininig on it, but I was quized by service tech for passing a golf with worn out discs and pads, discs below manufact. min thickness, guess we just can't win ;)

Last edited on Thu Nov 18th, 2010 08:05 pm by kit1958

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 Posted: Wed Nov 17th, 2010 11:18 pm
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volksjim
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atl brake testers had "imbalance" issues too,,believe it or not due to different tyre makes and tread patterns..also parking brake even though it locks and chucks the motor out the rollers you get a print out saying fail:D ok daft questions here how bad does a disc have to be now before it fails we are all aware what it now says in the testers manual.if it snaps//breaks on brake test thats a fail????if it does not snap//break thats a pass??? isn't it??

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 Posted: Wed Nov 17th, 2010 10:55 pm
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shpauly
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Wesley wrote: kit1958 wrote: Hi all, you wanted daft questions anyone got an answer for this.
When I do an ATL RBT I watch the dials, and all will seem ok. When I get the print out of the result about 5/10 will have FAIL in red letters for the imbalnce result. :? So if there is no outher prob, lights emmisions etc I will carry out a second RBT often getting PASS on the print out.
So my question is this, if I see that the first RBT is ok but the printout says no can I over rule it? if I do what would the VE say, 20 or 30 points for incorect procedure??
Just for info the equipment is newish & was calibrated only last week.
If any one has a sensible answer please post or any VE has an insight :?:?


Hi Kit,

We have recently had a new to us install  at another site, which now has an ATL-RBT, so i paid the site a visit to become "au-fait" with the new equipment.

Running through the ATL/RBT procedure and selecting class 1V, I drove My vehicle into the rollers which start automatically and the end result, was a fail on imbalance, when on the road it pulled up in a straight line?:?

A quick check next day on "Conventional Rollers" It was OK.? "Eight Weeks" later Its time for the "Annual" Inspection", so prior to its Annual Inspection, I popped it into the "Conventional Rollers" and discovered an unacceptable imbalance.

In the Interests of "Road Safety"? Are the new ATL/RBT`s trying to tell us something?? With "Conventional Rollers" You are able to carry ouy the centrallisation process longer than the, ATL/RBT Auotmatic system.?

On Inspection of the vehicle, the offside pad carriers had some corrosion, which obviously affected the "Imbalance"!;)   

 we have atl but rbt does not give print outs,often find a brake imbalance occurs(red writing)almost as soon as brake pressed but the brakes even out giving readings of about 180 and 200,as long as no binding found etc i just type in the 180 and 200 on vts instead of the 30%which atl spits out,as previously working on non atl this was the way to do it.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 15th, 2010 12:02 am
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Wesley
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kit1958 wrote: Hi all, you wanted daft questions anyone got an answer for this.
When I do an ATL RBT I watch the dials, and all will seem ok. When I get the print out of the result about 5/10 will have FAIL in red letters for the imbalnce result. :? So if there is no outher prob, lights emmisions etc I will carry out a second RBT often getting PASS on the print out.
So my question is this, if I see that the first RBT is ok but the printout says no can I over rule it? if I do what would the VE say, 20 or 30 points for incorect procedure??
Just for info the equipment is newish & was calibrated only last week.
If any one has a sensible answer please post or any VE has an insight :?:?


Hi Kit,

We have recently had a new to us install  at another site, which now has an ATL-RBT, so i paid the site a visit to become "au-fait" with the new equipment.

Running through the ATL/RBT procedure and selecting class 1V, I drove My vehicle into the rollers which start automatically and the end result, was a fail on imbalance, when on the road it pulled up in a straight line?:?

A quick check next day on "Conventional Rollers" It was OK.? "Eight Weeks" later Its time for the "Annual" Inspection", so prior to its Annual Inspection, I popped it into the "Conventional Rollers" and discovered an unacceptable imbalance.

In the Interests of "Road Safety"? Are the new ATL/RBT`s trying to tell us something?? With "Conventional Rollers" You are able to carry ouy the centrallisation process longer than the, ATL/RBT Auotmatic system.?

On Inspection of the vehicle, the offside pad carriers had some corrosion, which obviously affected the "Imbalance"!;)   

 

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 08:08 pm
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castrolrob
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a roadtest is permissable to confirm a test result,if safe roadtest it,if it dont f*** off to either side pass and advise that roller result ambiguous,when entering the results you have the option of selecting the type that suits you,roller/decelerometer/any other combination.use your eyes/brains....

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 08:00 pm
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castrolrob
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excess play at a swivel joint....

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 Posted: Sun Nov 14th, 2010 05:52 pm
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kit1958
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Hi all, you wanted daft questions anyone got an answer for this.
When I do an ATL RBT I watch the dials, and all will seem ok. When I get the print out of the result about 5/10 will have FAIL in red letters for the imbalnce result. :? So if there is no outher prob, lights emmisions etc I will carry out a second RBT often getting PASS on the print out.
So my question is this, if I see that the first RBT is ok but the printout says no can I over rule it? if I do what would the VE say, 20 or 30 points for incorect procedure??
Just for info the equipment is newish & was calibrated only last week.
If any one has a sensible answer please post or any VE has an insight :?:?

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 Posted: Sat Nov 13th, 2010 08:08 pm
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kit1958
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Maybe there was delevery prob as I didn't see that one either :?

Last edited on Sat Nov 13th, 2010 08:09 pm by kit1958

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 Posted: Fri Nov 12th, 2010 11:25 pm
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Wesley
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Thats seems to be the copy my AE  took home with him to read in his water closet.:X

"Ramrod" for him tomorrow!:shock:

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 Posted: Fri Nov 12th, 2010 11:24 pm
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Stealth
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kit1958 wrote: Stealth, thanks for finding the info I was strugling to remember
:cool:;)

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 Posted: Fri Nov 12th, 2010 07:38 pm
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kit1958
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Stealth, thanks for finding the info I was strugling to remember

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 Posted: Fri Nov 12th, 2010 05:47 pm
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Stealth
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KevG wrote:
PS. What do you guys put on the VT 30 for the Tie rod?

By Tie rod I mean the "Drumstick" ie the rack ball joint.


Kev

Better read page 13 - 'The Knowledge' ;)

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MoT%20-%20Issue%2047%20-%20Jul%202010.pdf

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