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Very Dim ABS light will it pass  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 02:56 pm
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Stealth
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Hi Judith

You have probably wondered what on earth you have wandered into when you posted your question on here.:?

Please keep the forum members informed of the result of your MOT ;)

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 Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 10:13 am
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Stealth
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Auto Engineer - I will give you an example ...



Section 3.4 - Method of Inspection includes a note ...this needs to be read in conjunction with your inspection, and referrred to should you find anything unusual regards the ABS system of operation.


****Note: The sequence varies with the type of system. Refer to VSI, manufacturer’s or other reliable data, eg purpose produced charts, books,etc.****


Yes - you can refer to manufacturers or other scources of reference, the MOT Inspection Manual cannot cover every single peculiarity of design & manufacture.


Lets take the Audi TT with OBD (On Board Diagnostics) as an example

A test sequence takes place after ignition is switched on, the ABS warning light is activated by the ABS, ABS/EDL control module and lights up for 2 seconds.



ABS is switched off if On Board Diagnostic (OBD) recognizes a malfunction that exclusively affects the ABS system.




The ABS warning light still lights up after ignition is switched on and after completion of test sequence, and goes out after 2 seconds. BUT the red 'Brake system malfunction' symbol also lights up, and remains lit.


The traditional brake system remains completely functional.



So - we have a situation where - for all intents and purposes the ABS lamp has followed it's correct sequence, however, additional info is provided by OBD to indicate a fault.



 



In most cases - the vehicles that you test do not have the added sophistication or expense of such luxuries as OBD, so test as presented, and if the ABS sequence works as expected then pass it & move on.




Should you encounter something 'out of the ordinary' such as in the case above, then refer to manufacturers or other reliable data as referred to in the Manual. 




In this case please feel free to use Reason for Rejection 1d. You may wish to use the free text box to quantify your decision to the presenter, based on reference to the above technical data.




Please do not try and 'Interpret' the manual - as this is the situation where most testers end up making the WRONG decision !! :shock:




Test exactly as presented - refer to additional data as necessary & as advised in the Manual - use the VOSA helpline if necessary - but please - dont go reading into the Reasons for Rejection and making you own 'Interpretation'





Regards





Stealth :D

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 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 05:31 pm
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Auto Engineer
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Stealth wrote: Section 3.4 - Reason for Rejection 1d states - (The warning lamp) - indicates an ABS fault.

As quoted from Judith's original post......

MOT coming up soon and my abs warning light comes on at start up and goes off correctly as it should ,however the light is very dim and nowhere near as bright as my other dash lights. I thought it would be a case of just renewing the bulb but on checking behind the instrument panel the buld is on a circuit panel and looks like it is soldered on not one tou can just turn and unplug like some of the others. It is working just not very bright, will it pass or if it has to be replaced how is it done. Thanks


The ABS system appears to function AS DESIGNED - but in this case the bulb is dim in comparison to the other dash lights, the ABS system appears to be working as intended.

As you have already advised Auto Engineer - Judith should consider having the item repaired - but - the tester is only required to assess the item as seen at the time of test, and not make any assumptions.

Judith - you may wish to advise the tester at the time of test that the bulb is dim, no harm in this at all - as long as the system runs it's self diagnosis when the ignition is switched on, and the lamp follows the correct sequence of illuminating & then going out - then this indicates that there is no fault with the ABS system its self.

When the tester prints out his check list at the start of test, the ABS warning lamp sequence of operation is printed on the check list as a source of reference. As long as the lamp follows this sequence of operation then - for MOT purposes - that is all that is required to be checked. It cannot fail just because the bulb is dim.


Lets end the what if's and put this thread to bed.


Pass & advise  is the appropriate action - all day & every day.  :):):):):):):)




very nice reply to everything you said and what Judith said, but you failed to answer the question, which is;

What does and how does one interpret the reason for rejection 1d?

Section 3.4 - Reason for Rejection 1d states - (The warning lamp) - indicates an ABS fault.

So all I am saying is assuming the lamp follows the correct operation as we all agree it does up to point 1d in the manual, that is the lamp complies with method of inspection 1, a,b and c, you all are saying it is a pass and advise, but nobody has interpreted 1d yet?

The VT40 print sheet only advises of the operation of the lamp and does not advise of the test failure criteria?

Please advise

Auto Engineer:)

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 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 10:00 am
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Stealth
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Mana: 
Section 3.4 - Reason for Rejection 1d states - (The warning lamp) - indicates an ABS fault.

As quoted from Judith's original post......

MOT coming up soon and my abs warning light comes on at start up and goes off correctly as it should ,however the light is very dim and nowhere near as bright as my other dash lights. I thought it would be a case of just renewing the bulb but on checking behind the instrument panel the buld is on a circuit panel and looks like it is soldered on not one tou can just turn and unplug like some of the others. It is working just not very bright, will it pass or if it has to be replaced how is it done. Thanks


The ABS system appears to function AS DESIGNED - but in this case the bulb is dim in comparison to the other dash lights, the ABS system appears to be working as intended.

As you have already advised Auto Engineer - Judith should consider having the item repaired - but - the tester is only required to assess the item as seen at the time of test, and not make any assumptions.

Judith - you may wish to advise the tester at the time of test that the bulb is dim, no harm in this at all - as long as the system runs it's self diagnosis when the ignition is switched on, and the lamp follows the correct sequence of illuminating & then going out - then this indicates that there is no fault with the ABS system its self.

When the tester prints out his check list at the start of test, the ABS warning lamp sequence of operation is printed on the check list as a source of reference. As long as the lamp follows this sequence of operation then - for MOT purposes - that is all that is required to be checked. It cannot fail just because the bulb is dim.


Lets end the what if's and put this thread to bed.


Pass & advise  is the appropriate action - all day & every day.  :):):):):):):)


Last edited on Mon Apr 13th, 2009 10:33 am by Stealth

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 Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 12:34 am
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Wesley wrote: Auto Engineer wrote: Wesley wrote: judith sandilands wrote: Thanks for that reply. When i take it for mot should i point out it is very dim as the tester may think it is not working and you have to cover dash to make it a bit darker to show that the light is working
Hi judith,

Stealth Is Correct;)

As a Vehicle Presenter, It is not Your Issue to advise for MOT purposes.

However If You are concerned, then have it looked at at your next service.

Regards,

Wes.


Based on what judith has said highlighted above, IE it is very dim and the tester may think it is not working and you have to cover over the dash to make it a bit darker to show that the light is working, does sound to me like the warning lamp indicates a fault, even if it is a badly burned bulb?

I suspose it must be down to how one interprets the reason for rejection 1d, which says "Check that a warning lamp does not indicate a fault"?

If the ABS lamp meets the criteria of A, B and C in the manual, then what does 1d refer to?

Auto Engineer:)


You Really Are Such A "Cussy Funt", Aren`t You?:?

In Original Post/Enqiry, "judith", Actually made A Statement, That, Although Not As Bright As You,:?:shock::P Works Perfectly Well And In The Correct Sequence.:P

NOW,:shock:  May I ask You a perfectly normal question?,:?

If judith, Has to shade the Dash Illuminations, Whilst parked at the Roadside, Then surely, When Vehicle Is Actually Inspected, In "A Testing Station" Designated Area, normally Undercover, What Is "Your Issue":?:? 

"WE"! YES, Thats, "A Very Large" "WE":?, Are Actually Inspecting, Vehicles, To "Mininum Required Standards" As set out by "VOSA":shock::P

"Conclusion",

"WE", "As Testers" Are Actually Inspecting Vehicles, as per "Minimum Requirements" If Such Idiosyncracies are present at time of "Service":shock: Then It, Really Is,            "Not Our Issue"!:P 

I May, Wish To, "Rant" About "Drivers View", But Thats another Issue, on another post, Which, Actually Concluded, Before "Intervention":shock:

My Last post Stands,

 "Stealth" IS, "CORRECT":D

  


Are you feeling alright Wes, you really do take everything to heart reading some of your previous posts on here don't you;)

I see from this forum you can read and write, why not try reading the manual, like section 3.4 page 1, take a look at reason for rejection 1d and tell us testers what you think it means?

Auto Engineer:)

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 Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 12:28 pm
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RFR
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Hi All,

         As most of said, test as presented, if it can be seen during the test, fine, not concerned with anything other senario.

rfr

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 Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 02:24 am
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Wesley
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Mana: 
Auto Engineer wrote: Wesley wrote: judith sandilands wrote: Thanks for that reply. When i take it for mot should i point out it is very dim as the tester may think it is not working and you have to cover dash to make it a bit darker to show that the light is working
Hi judith,

Stealth Is Correct;)

As a Vehicle Presenter, It is not Your Issue to advise for MOT purposes.

However If You are concerned, then have it looked at at your next service.

Regards,

Wes.


Based on what judith has said highlighted above, IE it is very dim and the tester may think it is not working and you have to cover over the dash to make it a bit darker to show that the light is working, does sound to me like the warning lamp indicates a fault, even if it is a badly burned bulb?

I suspose it must be down to how one interprets the reason for rejection 1d, which says "Check that a warning lamp does not indicate a fault"?

If the ABS lamp meets the criteria of A, B and C in the manual, then what does 1d refer to?

Auto Engineer:)


You Really Are Such A "Cussy Fun*", Aren`t You?:?

In Original Post/Enqiry, "judith", Actually made A Statement, That, Although Not As Bright As You,:?:shock::P Works Perfectly Well And In The Correct Sequence.:P

NOW,:shock:  May I ask You a perfectly normal question?,:?

If judith, Has to shade the Dash Illuminations, Whilst parked at the Roadside, Then surely, When Vehicle Is Actually Inspected, In "A Testing Station" Designated Area, normally Undercover, What Is "Your Issue":?:? 

"WE"! YES, Thats, "A Very Large" "WE":?, Are Actually Inspecting, Vehicles, To "Mininum Required Standards" As set out by "VOSA":shock::P

"Conclusion",

"WE", "As Testers" Are Actually Inspecting Vehicles, as per "Minimum Requirements" If Such Idiosyncracies are present at time of "Service":shock: Then It, Really Is,            "Not Our Issue"!:P 

I May, Wish To, "Rant" About "Drivers View", But Thats another Issue, on another post, Which, Actually Concluded, Before "Intervention":shock:

My Last post Stands,

 "Stealth" IS, "CORRECT":D

  

Last edited on Mon Apr 13th, 2009 11:22 pm by Wesley

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 Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 01:14 am
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Wesley wrote: judith sandilands wrote: Thanks for that reply. When i take it for mot should i point out it is very dim as the tester may think it is not working and you have to cover dash to make it a bit darker to show that the light is working
Hi judith,

Stealth Is Correct;)

As a Vehicle Presenter, It is not Your Issue to advise for MOT purposes.

However If You are concerned, then have it looked at at your next service.

Regards,

Wes.


Based on what judith has said highlighted above, IE it is very dim and the tester may think it is not working and you have to cover over the dash to make it a bit darker to show that the light is working, does sound to me like the warning lamp indicates a fault, even if it is a badly burned bulb?

I suspose it must be down to how one interprets the reason for rejection 1d, which says "Check that a warning lamp does not indicate a fault"?

If the ABS lamp meets the criteria of A, B and C in the manual, then what does 1d refer to?

Auto Engineer:)

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 Posted: Sat Apr 11th, 2009 09:13 am
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judith sandilands
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Mana: 
Thanks for all replys, however my car is 9 years old and i dont want to spend a large amount of money to get this bulb fixed when it is actually working, the car is probablys only worth a couple of hundered pound but is a good little run around

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 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 11:17 pm
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Wesley
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Mana: 
judith sandilands wrote: Thanks for that reply. When i take it for mot should i point out it is very dim as the tester may think it is not working and you have to cover dash to make it a bit darker to show that the light is working
Hi judith,

Stealth Is Correct;)

As a Vehicle Presenter, It is not Your Issue to advise for MOT purposes.

However If You are concerned, then have it looked at at your next service.

Regards,

Wes.

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 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 10:48 pm
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If the operation of the ABS lamp is so dim that a tester may miss it, this being that you may have to point it out, then with regards failure point 1d a tester may think of failing it for "indicating a fault".

I respect it may cost some money to fix it, but you may be better off getting it fixed rather than hoping it will pass, which it may do, but you sound as though you are playing with fire?

Auto Engineer:)

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 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 09:17 pm
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judith sandilands
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Thanks for that reply. When i take it for mot should i point out it is very dim as the tester may think it is not working and you have to cover dash to make it a bit darker to show that the light is working

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 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 06:21 pm
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Stealth
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Hi Judith

From what you have said -  it will pass.

:)

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 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 06:21 pm
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As long as you can see it working, and it does go out, then it would be ok.

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 Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 04:32 pm
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judith sandilands
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Hi All

MOT coming up soon and my abs warning light comes on at start up and goes off correctly as it should ,however the light is very dim and nowhere near as bright as my other dash lights. I thought it would be a case of just renewing the bulb but on checking behind the instrument panel the buld is on a circuit panel and looks like it is soldered on not one tou can just turn and unplug like some of the others. It is working just not very bright, will it pass or if it has to be replaced how is it done. Thanks

 

 

 

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