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castrolrob
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what the f*** happened to the original post?how many cocks can you fit below 1 mot hammer?

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Wesley wrote: Can Anyone See The "Confusion" here? posted by our dear "Member",

Between the "Service Brake"? related to above, and the, Original "Parking Brake" Issue??:?

"What A Cock"!:shock:


I thought the thread was originally about wire brushes Wes ?  :P

:D:D:D:D:D

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Bright Ideas? wrote: Aylesbury Jock wrote: Got to point out that you do not need to know whether the service brake or the parking brake is causing the binding. The RFR is brake binding and that is all we as testers need to know. You can investigate further as  a technician after the MOT is over for repair purposes
Start both sets of rollers and note whether a significant brake effort is recorded from any wheel without a brake being applied.  Gradually depress the "service brake" and watch how the braking effort for each wheel increases.:D


Can Anyone See The "Confusion" here? posted by our dear "Member",

Between the "Service Brake"? related to above, and the, Original "Parking Brake" Issue??:?

"What A Cock"!:shock:

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Stealth wrote: Wesley wrote:
May I beg to "differ"? with reference as to "when" the roller brake test is carried out?

surely it is not "mandatory" to conduct the "RBT" Last?:?

if so, "when" did we receive an "sn" to notify us of this?:?

wes.:P

While it is not mandatory to conduct the brake test last - best practice would suggest that the underside inspection is completed first in order to establish that there are no defects present which would render it unsafe to conduct a brake test, or which might present a risk of injury or present a risk of damage to the vehicle.  ;)


Thank You "Stealth",

Whilst this post is persuing A peticular aspect of the "Braking System" checks, Has "One"? Overlooked the "Parking Brake Lever", "Travel Check"?:?;) 

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Stealth wrote: Wesley wrote:
May I beg to "differ"? with reference as to "when" the roller brake test is carried out?

surely it is not "mandatory" to conduct the "RBT" Last?:?

if so, "when" did we receive an "sn" to notify us of this?:?

wes.:P

While it is not mandatory to conduct the brake test last - best practice would suggest that the underside inspection is completed first in order to establish that there are no defects present which would render it unsafe to conduct a brake test, or which might present a risk of injury or present a risk of damage to the vehicle.  ;)

Slightly off the mark lol:D, we were referring to the order of brake testing, i.e. carry out service brake performance first, then carry out Park brake performance afterwards lol:D

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Wesley wrote:
May I beg to "differ"? with reference as to "when" the roller brake test is carried out?

surely it is not "mandatory" to conduct the "RBT" Last?:?

if so, "when" did we receive an "sn" to notify us of this?:?

wes.:P

While it is not mandatory to conduct the brake test last - best practice would suggest that the underside inspection is completed first in order to establish that there are no defects present which would render it unsafe to conduct a brake test, or which might present a risk of injury or present a risk of damage to the vehicle.  ;)

Last edited on Fri Mar 18th, 2011 08:06 pm by Stealth

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Aylesbury Jock wrote: Got to point out that you do not need to know whether the service brake or the parking brake is causing the binding. The RFR is brake binding and that is all we as testers need to know. You can investigate further as  a technician after the MOT is over for repair purposes
Start both sets of rollers and note whether a significant brake effort is recorded from any wheel without a brake being applied.  Gradually depress the service brake and watch how the braking effort for each wheel increases.:D

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Got to point out that you do not need to know whether the service brake or the parking brake is causing the binding. The RFR is brake binding and that is all we as testers need to know. You can investigate further as  a technician after the MOT is over for repair purposes

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Wesley wrote: Bright Ideas? wrote: Aylesbury Jock wrote: Bright Ideas? wrote:

On another occassions at a seminar, a trainer said in response to my question on brakes, if after completing the park brake efficiency test the park brake did not release, and therefore the brake was binding, he said that is nothing to do with the mot test, its passed?

I think VOSA's view of the scheme standards are a lot lower than maybe the NT's are expecting them to be:shock:

I have a bit of a problem with that one. The test is not finished till you have completed the paperwork, so if you know the brake is binding during the MOT test how can it not fail?


 

The paperwork is part of the mot test, but is the administration side of it, the examination side of it is the inspection. It is the roller brake tester that shows you the brake is binding, not the adminsitration that follows. With regards the park brake test with reference to the manual, this efficiency test is done last, so it might not be possibly to know the brake is binding until after the test anyway?

In respect to KevG thread, which is more important the air freshener on the rear view mirror, or the 4mm wheel bearing play, quite obviously the air freshener on the mirror:D

To be honest I just normally take the air freshener off before I bring the vehicle into the test bay, and I must say that I have never in my life time of testing known a VE to do what you have said, although I am not saying some VE's have not do so, but in my view VE's issuing points for a air freshener is a bit much, after all the VE that counciled you about failing the brake disc you failed, which he said you should not have done didn't give you any points for something you thought was very serious?



May I beg to "differ"? with reference as to "when" the roller brake test is carried out?

surely it is not "mandatory" to conduct the "RBT" Last?:?

if so, "when" did we receive an "sn" to notify us of this?:?

wes.:P


I do it in order of the manual lol:D

If you did it before the roller brake test checking for service brake bind, then if a binding brake was present,how would you know which part of the brake was at fault:?, there is no reason for rejection for a parking brake binding is there?

You could in effect only fail for a service brake bind:D

So I guess lol that it is "mandatory" to check the park brake performance last:D

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Bright Ideas? wrote: Aylesbury Jock wrote: Bright Ideas? wrote:

On another occassions at a seminar, a trainer said in response to my question on brakes, if after completing the park brake efficiency test the park brake did not release, and therefore the brake was binding, he said that is nothing to do with the mot test, its passed?

I think VOSA's view of the scheme standards are a lot lower than maybe the NT's are expecting them to be:shock:

I have a bit of a problem with that one. The test is not finished till you have completed the paperwork, so if you know the brake is binding during the MOT test how can it not fail?


 

The paperwork is part of the mot test, but is the administration side of it, the examination side of it is the inspection. It is the roller brake tester that shows you the brake is binding, not the adminsitration that follows. With regards the park brake test with reference to the manual, this efficiency test is done last, so it might not be possibly to know the brake is binding until after the test anyway?

In respect to KevG thread, which is more important the air freshener on the rear view mirror, or the 4mm wheel bearing play, quite obviously the air freshener on the mirror:D

To be honest I just normally take the air freshener off before I bring the vehicle into the test bay, and I must say that I have never in my life time of testing known a VE to do what you have said, although I am not saying some VE's have not do so, but in my view VE's issuing points for a air freshener is a bit much, after all the VE that counciled you about failing the brake disc you failed, which he said you should not have done didn't give you any points for something you thought was very serious?



May I beg to "differ"? with reference as to "when" the roller brake test is carried out?

surely it is not "mandatory" to conduct the "RBT" Last?:?

if so, "when" did we receive an "sn" to notify us of this?:?

wes.:P

Last edited on Thu Mar 17th, 2011 11:32 pm by Wesley

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Aylesbury Jock wrote: Bright Ideas? wrote:

On another occassions at a seminar, a trainer said in response to my question on brakes, if after completing the park brake efficiency test the park brake did not release, and therefore the brake was binding, he said that is nothing to do with the mot test, its passed?

I think VOSA's view of the scheme standards are a lot lower than maybe the NT's are expecting them to be:shock:

I have a bit of a problem with that one. The test is not finished till you have completed the paperwork, so if you know the brake is binding during the MOT test how can it not fail?


 

The paperwork is part of the mot test, but is the administration side of it, the examination side of it is the inspection. It is the roller brake tester that shows you the brake is binding, not the adminsitration that follows. With regards the park brake test with reference to the manual, this efficiency test is done last, so it might not be possibly to know the brake is binding until after the test anyway?

In respect to KevG thread, which is more important the air freshener on the rear view mirror, or the 4mm wheel bearing play, quite obviously the air freshener on the mirror:D

To be honest I just normally take the air freshener off before I bring the vehicle into the test bay, and I must say that I have never in my life time of testing known a VE to do what you have said, although I am not saying some VE's have not do so, but in my view VE's issuing points for a air freshener is a bit much, after all the VE that counciled you about failing the brake disc you failed, which he said you should not have done didn't give you any points for something you thought was very serious?

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Bright Ideas? wrote:

On another occassions at a seminar, a trainer said in response to my question on brakes, if after completing the park brake efficiency test the park brake did not release, and therefore the brake was binding, he said that is nothing to do with the mot test, its passed?

I think VOSA's view of the scheme standards are a lot lower than maybe the NT's are expecting them to be:shock:

I have a bit of a problem with that one. The test is not finished till you have completed the paperwork, so if you know the brake is binding during the MOT test how can it not fail?


 

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I reckon it was the cold weather making springs go brittle and in conjuction with the roads being torn up by the frost.

 

Kev

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crystal balls:shock:

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kit1958 wrote: I wonder if the broken springs are owt to do with the state of the roads ? :D:D:D:D:D
Where does that road tax go ? Not on mending potholes that is for sure.

shhhhhh!!! that's how rumours start:D

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I wonder if the broken springs are owt to do with the state of the roads ? :D:D:D:D:D
Where does that road tax go ? Not on mending potholes that is for sure.

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bulged tyre sidewalls also up here with knackered suspension

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I agree Jock.

Same with wiper blades. If they clean the screen they pass.

If they dont, for whatever reason, (oil on screen springs to mind)

then they fail.

 

Just as an interesting aside.

Have had two cars in the garage in the last few weeks with antifreeze 9Engine Coolant) in the washer bottle!

 

Also , dont know about every one else, but we have been having more than our normal amount of broken springs recently.

 

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Shouldn't be interpretin, just readin then doin:D. That's when it all starts going wrong is when you start interpretin. With this example, when the rfr is not  providing enough  water to clear the screen in conjuntion with the wipers, what interpretation is needed? Can't think of any way to make that any clearer

Last edited on Tue Mar 15th, 2011 07:51 pm by Aylesbury Jock

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Aylesbury Jock wrote: We go by the manual - one standard
so true..but open to Interpretation :D as we all know;)

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We go by the manual - one standard

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Just as a ps don't vosa always say the latest version of "the book" is on line, therfore what ever it says online is what counts ?

Last edited on Tue Mar 8th, 2011 11:00 am by kit1958

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What jock says. The RFR is: "Washer provides insufficient fluid" Doesnt matter how many washers are, or are not working. Its either washing the screen or it isnt.

 

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"dvd means hee haw it's what is in the manual that counts!!" as said on refresher course last year..kinda sums it up for me :)

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Computerisation is worded differently than the MOT Manual, and they do specifically make it a point to note in their DVD, remember this is VOSA's wisdom:D

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I think they mean one washer is all you need IF it clears the screen, and not you only need one washer working full stop. One working washer won't always be good enough. Common sense in conjunction with the manual.

Last edited on Mon Mar 7th, 2011 03:46 pm by Aylesbury Jock

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kit1958 wrote: Has the rfr for screen washers just changed ?

"There was an old reason for rejection that said something like windscreen washers did not provide any liquid to clear the swept area, now VOSA say that "ONLY" one washer needs to provide liquid, and this can be on the passenger's side of the vehicle, i.e. the swept area, so when driving along the motorway with a HGV in front straight out of the quarry, totally spraying your front end of your vehicle with mud, it's OK because you have one washer jet to clear the swpet area and ZONE A effectively, then your safe"

As far as I can tell the book say's
The windscreen washers do not provide enough liquid to clear the windscreen in conjunction with the wiper(s).
There dosen't seem to be any numbers mentioned, so if it dosnt spray on both sides of the screen it aint providing enough liquid, so surly no water on either side fails, or am i missing somthing??


In VOSA's wisdom from Bristol in their DVD, either the DVD "A Vroom with a View" or the "Class of its Own", they show using an Audi A4 the nearside windscreen washer providing liquid ONLY, they REASON that the liquid will be SWEPT OVER to the ZONE A by the operation of the wiper blade, and they say this is effective enough for a Pass:(

While the New Manual says "Washers", when you go into the Drivers View of the Road Via Computerisation, you will read that the reason for rejection specifically says, "WASHER", and not WASHERS?

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Has the rfr for screen washers just changed ?

"There was an old reason for rejection that said something like windscreen washers did not provide any liquid to clear the swept area, now VOSA say that "ONLY" one washer needs to provide liquid, and this can be on the passenger's side of the vehicle, i.e. the swept area, so when driving along the motorway with a HGV in front straight out of the quarry, totally spraying your front end of your vehicle with mud, it's OK because you have one washer jet to clear the swpet area and ZONE A effectively, then your safe"

As far as I can tell the book say's
The windscreen washers do not provide enough liquid to clear the windscreen in conjunction with the wiper(s).
There dosen't seem to be any numbers mentioned, so if it dosnt spray on both sides of the screen it aint providing enough liquid, so surly no water on either side fails, or am i missing somthing??

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Bright Ideas? wrote:

I think VOSA's view of the scheme standards are a lot lower than maybe the NT's are expecting them to be:shock:

Undoubtedly true and yet testers keep getting points for minor items. You can't second guess how they are going to view something. I've always said I'm not paranoid, I know they're out to get me.

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I understand what you are saying Kev, and I agree with you, but we are talking about VOSA here. I'll give you another good example of VOSA thinking, it's regarding the drivers view of the road;

There was an old reason for rejection that said something like windscreen washers did not provide any liquid to clear the swept area, now VOSA say that "ONLY" one washer needs to provide liquid, and this can be on the passenger's side of the vehicle, i.e. the swept area, so when driving along the motorway with a HGV in front straight out of the quarry, totally spraying your front end of your vehicle with mud, it's OK because you have one washer jet to clear the swpet area and ZONE A effectively, then your safe:(

Seems funny to me that each time these new lower standards are implied that the persons on the DVD's are just ready to retire, so nobody can come back on them for their poor decisions and totally lack of real experience in the real world outside their office windows:D

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So why are NTs getting points for missing air fresheners on rear view mirrors/

Whats worse, 4mm play in a bearing or a!"Feu Orange"?

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I was advised by a VOSA trainer many years ago to pass and advise brake pipes where the presenter had grease over them, however he also said that if the NT chose to remove the grease that it was permissible, but must put grease back on the pipes.

To be honest in my life time testing vehicles I have had a few pipes burst in the rollers, even leak after brake servo checks, and where brake pipes have grease or surface corrosion present I don't make a song and dance about it, I just pass and advise:D

Reading some threads on this forum over time I think some NT's are too worried about the future:?, as on senior VE once said to me, if you pass and advise a wheel bearing free play with about 3 to 4 mm present, and when the presenter of the vehicle drives it out of your VTS onto the open road and the wheel fell off, its nothing to do with the mot scheme and the NT has nothing to worry about.

On another occassions at a seminar, a trainer said in response to my question on brakes, if after completing the park brake efficiency test the park brake did not release, and therefore the brake was binding, he said that is nothing to do with the mot test, its passed?

I think VOSA's view of the scheme standards are a lot lower than maybe the NT's are expecting them to be:shock:

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KevG wrote:
Hi Guys, Dont want to split hairs or start any argy bargy but...

How do you know the pipe is dangerous if you say you cant check it?

Kev


I don't , but at the same time I don't know it isn't & people who smear brake pipes in a very thick coating of grease are ( more often than not) trying to hide something .
and an advisory is just that ( even says on the back that it is the testers opinion ) that would be my answer if anyone was ever to question me on this.
have had cars come in with thick wet underseal sprayed on the brake pipes , same applied with that as well .
don't know that I am 100% right in advising in this way but its the only way I can see of safely covering my own rear aspects so to speak .:D

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Hi Guys, Dont want to split hairs or start any argy bargy but...

How do you know the pipe is dangerous if you say you cant check it?

Kev

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removalizer wrote:
Hey Kev1975

How do you word the gangerous rfr advisory on the brake pipes


normally something along the lines of " unable to fully check condition of brake pipes due to being covered in grease " & then tick the dangerous box

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Hey Kev1975

How do you word the gangerous rfr advisory on the brake pipes

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castrolrob wrote: scraping off the underseal from a repair constitutes"damage to the vehicle"so you are supposed to replace it afterwards along with the protective coating(i.e.grease)that you removed from that rotten brakepipe that they camouflaged with copaslip.mind how you go lads....
We are not supposed to be scraping the underseal off repairs so there won't be any need to replace it afterwards.

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Last year I tested a Land Cruiser with a blowing exhaust and brake pipes coated in thick grease and soot, nice. When asstant pressed the brake one burst above the fuel tank, it was one of the dirty'st jobs i have ever done when I hade to replace them :X
Still in years gone by the wire brush was used as a teaching tool on apprentices, prob not allowed now
:D

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volksjim wrote:
getting a fair few from one trader with all the pipes covered in grease..i just pass and advise them..boils my pee a wee tad looking forward to one bursting on the brake tester hope that scares him into submission...probally not:X

I have peed a few off by leaving them with a manual advisory marked as dangerous .
what I don't get is why anyone would be stupid enough to take a risk with their or other peoples lives , we can't remove the grease as it is a protective coating so they end up blagging an MOT .
then when the brakes fail they will be back complaining that the death trap of a car should never have passed in the first place .
if the pipes are rotten then they need to be replaced , simple as .

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Hi Volksjim.

 

We used to have a trader that used at least a tin of underseal per repair.

what can you do? asked him if he would consider not painting it until after retestto no availe.

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getting a fair few from one trader with all the pipes covered in grease..i just pass and advise them..boils my pee a wee tad looking forward to one bursting on the brake tester hope that scares him into submission...probally not:X

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scraping off the underseal from a repair constitutes"damage to the vehicle"so you are supposed to replace it afterwards along with the protective coating(i.e.grease)that you removed from that rotten brakepipe that they camouflaged with copaslip.mind how you go lads....

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Dam that's a shame, just when I thought that the hammer on the board was a backup for the toffee hammer:D

Is the wire brush not used for scraping off the underseal after leaving the VTS for a welding repair, then one can inspect the quality of repair before passing and advising:D

How do you hang the new digital tyre tread depth gauge on the hooks of the board:D

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It is used to clean the small hammer that is also on some boards.

 

Seriously, its not part of official kit, neither is the small hammer if yours has one.

(I dont meann the Corrosion assesment tool there is a  real hammer on our board)

 

Use it to keep your turn plates clean?

Kev

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When I got the mot toolboard, there was and still is a wire brush on it. Any idea what the official use is for it ?



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