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 Posted: Mon May 21st, 2018 07:46 pm
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Aylesbury Jock
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Paul S wrote:
What happened to driving to and from a place of repair/test station - surely this still stands?



Nothing happened to it. It just isn't what you believed it was. Presenters have always been legally entitled to drive to and from a place of repair/test station in an UNTAXED vehicle because you need to have it MOT'd to get it taxed. It is not, and never has been legal to drive a vehicle with KNOWN faults to and from anywhere on a public road.

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 Posted: Fri May 18th, 2018 01:56 pm
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Paul S
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This is a list of the new MOT Test items as at 18th May 2018
https://www.motester.co.uk/revised-mot-manual-guide-to-the-new-mot-changes-may-2018/

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 Posted: Wed May 16th, 2018 07:22 pm
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Paul S
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With four days to go until the MOT changes come in on 20 May 2018 Neil Barlow on the latest Matters of Testing blog asked or requested... 'Finally, if you do see any stories with incorrect information on the changes, please let us know in the comments below'...

https://www.autodata-group.com/uk/news/industry/new-mot-changes-come-force/
Dangerous defects will immediately fail the MOT test and the vehicle cannot be driven until the fault is rectified.

... was about to paste above onto dvsa blog but didnt cause bloke named chronic wrote

'Can you drive your vehicle away from the VTS following a failure? Major and/or Dangerous. I presume 'Yes' if major/'No' if dangerous.

The DVSA do not seem to be very clear on this. Perhaps it's just me (probably is!). Was wondering if you can help me understand.

From the Matters Of Testing blog:

"Julia (DVSA) posted on on 26 April 2018. Following some of your comments, we’d just like clarify the position:

The defects that have been recognised as dangerous are all pre-defined. There will not be the option to mark other defects as such. If a vehicle does fail an MOT (be that for major and/or dangerous defects) then, as now, its current MOT will still be valid until expiry. However, as now, it will still not be legal to drive if it is ‘unroadworthy’."

I have replied, but can't get passed moderation. I mentioned that in a previous reply to a post, Julia (DVSA) said that a vehicle with a dangerous defect should not be driven, but a vehicle with a Major defect could still be driven away. This post appears to have been removed since.

It now reads:

"Julia (DVSA) posted on on 11 April 2018

The responsibility for driving a vehicle (or not) sits with the motorist. As now, if a tester has recorded a dangerous defect we would expect the customer to be provided with advice on the nature and severity of the defect. Also, the failure document is now much starker in warning the motorist to not use the vehicle with dangerous defects but we do recognise that some irresponsible motorists may still chose to ignore that advice."

Neil Barlow posted on on 24 April 2018

"As now, driving an unroadworthy vehicle on the road is not legal and - more importantly - not sensible."

So, my confusion/questions: What is 'unroadworthy'? Does any major and dangerous failure mean 'unroadworthy', or just dangerous failures? If so, why don't they just say that? They're using the term 'unroadworthy' instead. Is 'unroadworthy' subjective (surely not)?

Can a customer drive their vehicle away following a failure or not?

If not, the public need to be made aware of this. What is the advantage of bringing a vehicle in early? We, as a test station, test about 30 vehicles a day. 50% of these fail. We probably repair about 50% of these. We test for other garages, including main dealers. They do their own repairs (obviously). So they can no longer take the vehicles back to their workshop? What happened to driving to and from a place of repair/test station - surely this still stands? As a company we have sites that only carry out MOTs and a few minor repairs (wipers, bulbs etc.). We're going to have to invest in some serious parking if the vehicles that fail can not be driven away. Some customers have their own, very good, preferred garages that do not perform MOTs.

There was talk from Europe that the testing stations were to be separate from the repair side of the trade. These testing stations will have recovery vehicles cued up outside like taxis at an airport.

I feel that the DVSA have backtracked. They initially thought that a vehicle with a major defect can be driven. But, probably on legal advice, they are now no longer saying that. Using the term 'unroadworthy' instead.

Regards.

QUESTION...is http://www.autodata-group.com giving correct information on the changes, & if YES CAN SOMEONE PLEASE SPELL IT OUT, if its incorrect information on the changes shall post it on Matters of Testing.

Taking into account its always been an offence to drive a vehicle with a defect known to the driver/operator,we NEVER have been able to stop em,we still cant.only plod has the power to direct traffic in any legal sense,theyve just written it in bigger print is all.explain dangerous to the presenter,after that its up to him/her.
cause am bit confused CAN A CUSTOMER DRIVE THEIR VEHICLE AWAY FOLLOWING A DANGEROUS DEFECT FAILURE TO HOME OR A PLACE OF REPAIR LEGALY?

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 Posted: Sun May 13th, 2018 03:13 pm
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Paul S
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Sorry, regarding the new MoT Manual by DVSA, the DFT should increase the MOT test fee.

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 Posted: Sun May 13th, 2018 02:54 pm
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Paul S
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Regarding the new Manual DVSA should increase the MOT test fee!
Nearly 9,500 residents of London die prematurely every year as a result of long-term exposure to air pollution, a 2015 study by researchers at King’s College London showed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/entertainment-arts-43820243/art-installation-creates-smelling-pods-of-major-cities-air#
Living Diesel. Im not a fan of this I don't want to be here much longer to be honest (and that's the vehicle presenter?):shock: :D

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 Posted: Fri May 11th, 2018 10:16 am
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martins
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The new Manual is up on the DVSA website here:

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/

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 Posted: Thu May 10th, 2018 07:23 am
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castrolrob
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I will be wrong one day,it just aint gonna be today is all:shock:

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 Posted: Wed May 9th, 2018 07:39 pm
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Paul S
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https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/how-the-new-mot-defect-categories-will-work/

Mil not working as in manual...castrolrob posted on 02 May 2018, essentially its unenforceable I.e.pass and advise for the light not working at all with the added bonus that before much longer you aint gonna be able to advise!The reply concerned comes from DVSA's own standards team....

http://mtaeta.info/thread/3799/opinions-on-new-eml-failure?page=6
Just had clarification via phone call on the MoI and RfR for EML.

The RfR simply says EML indicates a fault. So if no lamp illuminates with only the ignition and then stays off with the engine running it's a pass.

We can only fail if the lamp is on when the engine is running indicating a fault. We may have updated variations to what is classed as an EML but not until after the Go Live date

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 Posted: Mon May 7th, 2018 03:35 pm
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sledge
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Well the new manual is here.
Spent all day reading it.
Interesting lol.
I'm going to charge £20 a throw for my summary cos I bet the majority of testers aren't going to waste a day of their lives to read it.
And yes it would have been better if they had got an adult to proof read it! eg. 4.6.1 and 3.5

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 Posted: Tue May 1st, 2018 12:34 pm
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castrolrob
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as ive posted elsewhere I requested they get someone with an adult reading level to proof read it,im not hopeful this will occur:shock:

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 Posted: Tue May 1st, 2018 11:59 am
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Paul S
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Reverse lamp(s) if light output is reduced its a major fail, if the lens is defective, adversely affecting the light or if the light don’t work its minor:D

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 Posted: Tue May 1st, 2018 11:22 am
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castrolrob
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youre familiar with the concept that a camel was a horse designed by a committee yes?this new manual appears to follow the same concept and is most certainly a result of the same process:D

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 Posted: Tue May 1st, 2018 11:13 am
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Paul S
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add that you gotta pass blue Daytime Running Lights & Stop Lamp(s) Does not face rear Minor, Tyre valve stem damaged…Advisory, And the new manual gives 3 defects for shock absorbers you then log into the Training area and there's 5 defects they don't match up :shock:

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 Posted: Tue May 1st, 2018 10:37 am
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castrolrob
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add that you need more than 1 wheel nut missing to fail it now:shock:load ratings not displayed pass to name but a few....

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 Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2018 12:42 pm
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Paul S
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https://www.motester.co.uk/new-mot-inspection-manual-may-2018-guide-to-changes/

New MOT Inspection Manual from May 20th 2018
Helpful information for MOT Testers
Overview
The new MOT Inspection Manual is totally different from the older version. Here are the key differences:

There is no longer a column for ‘Method of Inspection’, the information is imparted in the run of text throughout each section.
The layout of the Manual is different with some new Sections, and other Sections in the old Manual being dropped.
There are three levels of failures: Minor, Major, and Dangerous.
There are 18 new Testable items, (see below), and over 70 additional inspections of current Testable items. (also see below).
6 Testable items have been removed.
Comparison between old and new Manual Sections
Testers will need to familiarise themselves with these section changes so that when they need to check something out, they won’t waste time looking for items in the wrong place.

Old Manual
Section 1 Lamps Reflectors and Electrical Equipment

Section 2 Steering and Suspension

Section 3 Brakes

Section 4 Road wheels and Tyres

Section 5 Seat Belts and Supplementary Restraint Systems (SRS)

Section 6 Body, Structure and General Items

Section 7 Exhaust, Fuel and Emissions

Section 8 Drivers View of the Road

Section 9 Motor Tricycles and Quadricycles

New Manual
Section 0 Identification of the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency

Section 1 Brakes

Section 2 Steering

Section 3 Visibility

Section 4 Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment

Section 5 Axles, wheels, tyres and suspension

Section 6 Body, structure and attachments

Section 7 Other equipment

Section 8 Nuisance (includes emissions)

Section 9 Supplementary tests for buses and coaches

Section 10 Seat belt installation checks.

Revised Introduction
The new Introduction has these changes:

Introduction of EU Type Approval categories
Clarification of Dual purpose vehicle definition
American and Canadian pick-up trucks up to 6500kg now in Class 4
Information about Vehicles of Historic Interest added
Reason to refuse to test for presence of a load added
Reasons for Rejection changed to Defects
Minor, Major and Dangerous defect categorisation
Definition of insecure added
Definition of unsafe modification added
Changes to ‘extensively modified vehicles to include modifications for disabled use
New MOT failure definitions
‘Reasons for Refusal’ have been dropped, being now called ‘Defects’. The three levels of Defect are:

minor – deficiencies having no significant effect on the safety of the vehicle or impact on the environment and other minor non-compliances. If only defects of a minor nature are present a test certificate will still be issued
major – deficiencies that may prejudice the safety of the vehicle, have an impact on the environment, put other road users at risk or other more significant non-compliances
dangerous – deficiencies constituting a direct and immediate risk to road safety or having an impact on the environment
Test Certificates will change. Here are three examples:

New Testable Items
Brake fluid
Additional braking device performance
Daytime running lamps
Front fog lamps
Reversing lamps
Bumpers
Prop shafts
All rear drive shafts
Cab security
Cab steps
Floors
Passenger hand grips (quads and heavy trikes only)
Noise suppression material
Undertray security
Emission control equipment
➢ Oxygen sensor

➢ NOx sensor

➢ Exhaust gas recirculation valve

➢ Other emission control equipment

Engine Malfunction indicator lamp
DPF tampering
Fluid leaks – engine, transmission etc
Removed Testable items:
Checks for two different VINs
Checks for reserve pressure of full power hydraulic systems
Class 5 glazing now only applies to vehicles first used from 1 June 1978 and no longer applies to interior doors or panels
Checks for tyre correctly seated on the bead rim removed
Checks of tyre valves removed
Failure for fitment of a space-saver wheel removed
New Inspections of existing Testable items
Identification of Vehicle

Checks for two different VINs removed
New failure for VIN obviously falsified
Brakes
New failure for brake lining or pad wear indicator illuminated
New failure for brake lining or pad incorrectly mounted
New failure for a brake disc or drum missing
New failure for incorrectly installed brake slack adjuster
New failure for additional braking device insecure or inoperative
New failures for other braking system components damaged or corroded e.g. air dryer, antifreeze pump

ABS system cannot be removed on a post 2010 vehicle
New failure for brake fluid contaminated
New failures for air brake reservoir drain device
Checks for reserve pressure of full power hydraulic systems removed
Lamps, Reflectors and Electrical Equipment
New failure for light source and lamp not compatible
Headlamp washers tested on vehicles first used on or after 1 September 2009
Information added about the interaction between position lamps and other lamps
Inspection of end-outline marker lamps now applies to Class 4, 5, and 7
New failures for daytime running lamps
New failures for front fog lamps
New failures for reversing lamps
Steering
New failures for sector shaft condition
New failure for steering gear fixing holes elongated
New failures for electronic power steering wiring damaged or corroded
New failure relating to ‘fly by wire’ steering systems
Axles, Wheels, Tyres and Suspension
Failures previously only applicable to large vehicles now apply to any vehicle
Checks for tyre structure between axles removed
Improved information about assessing tyre damage
Reference to stretched tyres included
Checks for tyre correctly seated on the bead rim removed
Checks of tyre valves removed
Failure for fitment of a space-saver wheel removed
New failure for tyre obviously under-inflated on TPMS equipped vehicles post 1 Jan 2012
New failure for a spring missing
Tyre tables now in Appendix B
Visibility
Driver’s field of vision definition updated
View of exterior mirrors added
New failure for excessively tinted glass
Class 5 glazing now only applies to vehicles first used from 1 June 1978 and no longer applies to interior doors or panels
Chassis frame and Attachments
Vehicle structure now fails if its rigidity is significantly reduced
New checks for strengthening plates and fastening
Exhaust fumes entering cabin failure extended to all vehicles
Information about fuel tanks holed above the fuel line added
New failures for fuel tank and exhaust shields missing
New failure for any part of a gas fuel system defective
New failures for bumper security
New failure for spare wheel carrier condition
New failures for towbar safety devices and coupling indicators
Inspection of drive shafts extended to all transmission shafts, including prop shafts
Inspection now includes drive belts and chains
Inspection of body condition now includes unsafe modifications, component security, including undertrays as well as body pillars on goods vehicles
New failures for cab security
New failures for floor condition
New failures for seat structure condition
New failures for cab steps
New failures for footrests and handgrips where fitted
Nuisance
This new Section includes noise, emissions and fluid leaks

New failures for noise suppression material
New failures for exhaust emission control equipment
New failures for induction leaks
New failure for engine malfunction indicator lamp
New failure for evidence that a diesel particulate filter (DPF) has been tampered with
Metered smoke test date changed to 1 January 1980
New smoke limit of 0.7m-1 introduced for vehicles first used on or after 1 January 2014
Smoke test limits on vehicles post 1 July 2008 will be carried out to either the default standard or the limit on the manufacturers plate where one is displayed
Option to abort the smoke test if levels are significantly in excess of the specified limit values after one acceleration
Fast pass no longer exists
Test is passed if specific limit achieved after one acceleration, otherwise after three accelerations, otherwise after up to a maximum of 6 accelerations
New failure for any visible smoke from a vehicle fitted with a DPF
New failures for fluid leaks – engine coolant and Adblue not included
Other Equipment
Seat belt fitment information moved to Appendix C
Seat belt installation checks moved to Section 10
New failure for seat belt not functioning as intended
Appendix A – Structural Integrity and Corrosion
Change to failure criteria for defects not within a prescribed area
Clarification on acceptable repairs in the case of spot welded panels
Other changes
This includes many items which would currently be a Reason for Refusal, but will only be a Minor Defect after 20th May.

‘Inappropriate repair’ dropped other than for prescribed areas
‘Inappropriate modification’ changed to ‘unsafe modification’
Where only ‘Minor’ deficiencies exist, a test certificate will still be issued. Some of these items currently fail the test and include:
➢ Brake fluid level below minimum mark

➢ Master cylinder cap missing

➢ Brake fluid warning lamp illuminated or inoperative

➢ Power steering fluid below minimum mark

➢ Trailer electrical socket insecure

➢ Direction indicator flashing rate

➢ One of two registration plate lamps missing or inoperative

➢ Several audible warning defects

➢ Many items ‘insecure’ but not likely to become detached

Note: This is provided as a Guide to MOT Testers to identify key differences in the new and old MOT Manuals to avoid mistakes. It is not necessarily a definitive list, and Testers should always refer to the official Manual when conducting an MOT inspection.

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 Posted: Sun Apr 29th, 2018 11:04 am
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castrolrob
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Paul S wrote:
Defect that no longer cause an MOT test fail: master cylinder cap missing.
New item that you will test from 20 May 2018 are: brake fluid contamination.

THIS IS A CONTRADICTION as brake fluid is hygroscopic & therefore will be contaminated if the cap is missing further & without speculating there would be the potential of an imminent risk of failure if this cap was not in place. How then can a tester be expected to 'Minor' it or advise knowing the role brake fluid plays?..or are they expected to just fail 'Major' or 'Dangerous' it under contamination?

To add salt to injury 'brake fluid level below the minimum mark' is a 'Minor' advise?
yup,the reservoir has to be pretty much empty before it becomes a major.maybe they'll fix it before it goes live,maybe they'll leave it as is so we can all look like an incompetent bunch of lackwits,judging by previous performances theres only gonna be one side of the ledger that all the bets are going on:shock:

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 Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2018 01:45 pm
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Paul S
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time will tell geezer::P:D:D:D

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 Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2018 12:09 pm
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castrolrob
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have given up even bothering with any ministry publications/blogs etc.yes I know it sounds defeatist but I am sick of completely wasting my time.take a look at the other forum with Olivia from dvsa advising presenters they can drive no probs with major defects if you wanna lighten your mood a little:shock:

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 Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2018 11:22 am
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Paul S
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Current Matters of Testing Blog...Neil Barlow posted on 24 April 2018
Hi Mike. Which change is confusing? Happy to clarify.

In reply to...21 April 2018
Utterly daft changes and extremely confusing to my mind. Will these changes actually improve road safety and reduce road deaths?

opportunity to snag all these problems!!!

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 Posted: Wed Apr 25th, 2018 07:22 pm
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Stealth
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Lighten up Paul....I'll add some smileys for you.

:D:D:D:P

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