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Catalytic Converters Removed - Car presented on LPG  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2018 03:19 am
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Paul S
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Hello Stealth

Different points of view

On spark ignition engine vehicles that qualify for a full catalyst emissions test...check the presence of catalytic converter(s) THERE'S NO CAVEAT ABOUT LPG FUEL and DVSA should include a statement in the information section of 7.3 in the Manual, that LPG powered vehicles should have a non-cat emissions test.

Although it is perhaps implied it you carefully study the flow charts. testers don't have to look for it - its built into the emission equipment's software and therfore a test station may automatically fail if the CATS were missing

are the trade happy? Personally don't think so....:?

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 Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2018 12:10 pm
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Stealth
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Hi Paul

Ive had chance to look back on the previous thread you referred to (David1)

Bearing in mind your recent post on this thread Ive copied & pasted your comment in a reply to David1 back in 2017





Hi, I stand to be corrected here,
A car having a cat from new (94 range rover lse), being run and presented on lpg not having a cat would not fail the equipment missing from original spec element...
7. Multi fuel vehicles Vehicles which run on more than one fuel(e.g. petrol and LPG) should be tested on the fuel they are running on when presented.
&
On petrol engine vehicles that qualify for a full catalyst emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter.

Therefore the motor being tested is as presented & as such being run on lpg is not required to have a cat.
We don't make the rules just follow them, are the trade happy? Personally don't think so

.


Your comments on the previous thread (David1) are in total contradiction to your recent reply on this current topic.

Your comments in the above post are clear enough, you are stating that an LPG fuelled vehicle does not need catalytic convertor(s) yet you most recent post is clearly the complete opposite.


Maybe you could explain....:?

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 Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2018 04:59 am
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castrolrob
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a cats only reqrd on vehicles subject to a cat test,as stealth says no cat test = no fail for cats,the rfr specifically states on vehicles subject to a cat test cat missing fail.non cat test it aint a fail,present on petrol instead of lpg then yes its a fail which is one of the reasoms for asking the punter what its running on when beginning the test.had one with lpg tank removed and owner insisting it was still cat exempt,nope.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2018 06:19 pm
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lordgaz
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Thank you both for the input. As soon as I have a reply from DSVA I will report back (though the reply can take up to 10 days!)

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 Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2018 03:38 pm
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Stealth
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Well you completely lost me Paul when you started referring back to David1. I'll happily just wait for DVSA toconfirm to lordgaz that an LPG fuelled car doesnt need cats.🙂

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 Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2018 03:18 pm
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Paul S
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Conventional petrol fueled require a cat test from 1st August 1992 and quiet rightly fail if the cat is missing. Stand to be corrected,..& referring back to the previous thread David1 effectively asked where it says in the Manual that a vehicle which would normally require a catalytic converter - and hence a cat emission test, does not require a cat test to run on LPG, yet that isn't stated specifically anywhere in the Manual. Although it is perhaps implied it you carefully study the flow charts. Yet Testers don't have to look for it - its built into the emission equipment's software. Perhaps DVSA should include a statement in the information section of 7.3 in the Manual, that that LPG powered vehicles should have a non-cat emissions test.
Surprisingly, throughout that thread there was the tacit acceptance by everybody that as it didn't need a cat emission test, then if the cat had been removed it would not fail the test as it was presented whilst running on LPG Fuel.
I'm not sure. In the Manual under "Exhaust system" section 7.1 there's a clear Reason for Rejection in subsection 3, saying, "A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard". I repeat there's no caveat about LPG fuel.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2018 12:12 pm
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Stealth
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Hi lordgaz & welcome to the forum.

I've copied & pasted the Metod of Inspection from the Manual for info.


3. On spark ignition engine vehicles that qualify for a full catalyst emissions test and all compression ignition vehicles check the
presence of catalytic converter(s) and
particulate filters.

This effectively means that LPG fuelled vehicles do not require a cat as they are NOT subject to a catalyst emissions test.

Pauls answer is partially correct, but we must read the Method of Inspection first. Conventional petrol fuelled require a cat test from 1st August 1995 and quiet rightly fail if the cat is missing.

Hope this explains the subject for you. You will receive the same reply from DVSA.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2018 03:25 am
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lordgaz
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Thank you Paul - I phoned DVSA just now and explained the same predicament and the person I spoke to said that if it is registered as LPG (it is, on the V5 form) and presented on LPG to the tester, it should not fail - Obviously I have asked for this in writing, and was told to email DSVA with the same query - I'll have to see if the person who responds to the email feels the same.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2018 03:11 am
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Paul S
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In the Manual under "Exhaust system" section 7.1 there's a clear Reason for Rejection in subsection 3, saying, "A catalytic converter or particulate filter missing where one was fitted as standard". There's no caveat about LPG fuel.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 26th, 2018 12:16 pm
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lordgaz
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Hi All

I note the discussion a little further down the forum about LPG, but I wanted to check again based on todays date the following fail.

I bought my 1999 mercedes with LPG conversion (it is registered as LPG also on the registration document) , and the rear CATS were not present.

It has passed 3 years of MOT's since I had it being presented on LPG to the MOT station.
This year (ie - today) I took it to a different station, presented on LPG, but was told it is automatic fail as the rear CATS were missing. Can anyone confirm if this is 100% correct to fail and LPG presented car in this way>?

(it certainly passes the emissions test when tested as LPG)

Many thanks in advance.

Gaz

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